Dubai HFV (Mini) Meet & Marantz CD 6003 vs. Emotiva ERC-1 CD Player Shootout

[thekinge]

Square_wave and Dilip .....
Its nice to see a happy ending.... to this discussion.

was waiting for some 'thai kick boxing', alas turned to be a damp squib

just kidding guys

you 2 have shown the way to the others on how to go about a meaningful discussion, kudos to both of you for your good behaviour!!!

Thank you harryanthony & denom. I'm sure a lot of threads in HFV have similar happy endings!

 

[harryanthony]

Have you managed to sell your CD 6003?

 

[square_wave]

Have you managed to sell your CD 6003?

I am sure there will be quite a few takers for this player

The 6000 series from Marantz are quite good. I only have experience with the original cd 6000ose. It was a nice player. Treading a fine line between detail and mellow/sweetness ! Very good combination and design fundamentals for the $$ they used to sell for.

 

[micjak77]

Thanks to Kinge for this review. My thoughts

happy with the outcome
wanted Emotiva to win (I am soon buying XPA-5)

The only part that maybe could have been better was using a Pre Power amp instead of AVR. That took a little hit on the credibility.

Nice effort overall, Kinge.

 

[thekinge]

Have you managed to sell your CD 6003?

Nope not yet. Will be putting up for sale ad hopefully by tomorrow

 

[thekinge]

Thanks to Kinge for this review. My thoughts

happy with the outcome
wanted Emotiva to win (I am soon buying XPA-5)

The only part that maybe could have been better was using a Pre Power amp instead of AVR. That took a little hit on the credibility.

Nice effort overall, Kinge.

Thanks micjak77, the test was done by me and Venkatcr together.

On using an AVR for comparison, I had posted earlier in this thread that the 876 is capable enough to perform comarably to a decent integrated stereo amp. I will be posting the comarison between 876 and a stereo amp soon which should settle that matter.

 

[ajinkya]

I really don't understand this reluctance to accept the results of the test, just because an AVR was used. A pre-power will not magically make one player sound better than the other. Yes, there is always synergy of components to be considered but this test was done with the equipment described and differences were heard. Why is the result less meaningful because of the AVR? At the end of the day, the Emotiva, in the given setup, was found to be better sounding. End of test, end of story.

As an aside, many of us do have this hybrid combination of HT and stereo in the same setup, either because of cost, space, or family reasons. AVRs today are much better in sound reproduction than before and basing one's opinion of a test only the presence or absence of an AVR is, to my mind, illogical. Those who have a dedicated stereo setup are lucky. Many members do not but that should in no way detract from the enjoyment they get listening to their music through their AVR of choice.

 

[gobble]

I really don't understand this reluctance to accept the results of the test, just because an AVR was used. A pre-power will not magically make one player sound better than the other. Yes, there is always synergy of components to be considered but this test was done with the equipment described and differences were heard. Why is the result less meaningful because of the AVR? At the end of the day, the Emotiva, in the given setup, was found to be better sounding. End of test, end of story.

As an aside, many of us do have this hybrid combination of HT and stereo in the same setup, either because of cost, space, or family reasons. AVRs today are much better in sound reproduction than before and basing one's opinion of a test only the presence or absence of an AVR is, to my mind, illogical. Those who have a dedicated stereo setup are lucky. Many members do not but that should in no way detract from the enjoyment they get listening to their music through their AVR of choice.

No reluctance by anyone to be honest... Some members were just pointing out various factors that can influence the results....


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[denom]

Hi Dhillip,

Await your comparo results, pls do so asap.... hopefully then most of the doubts will be put to rest...

 

[thekinge]

Hi Dhillip,

Await your comparo results, pls do so asap.... hopefully then most of the doubts will be put to rest...

Hi Denom,

Just landed back in Dubai today. Will post the comparison this week.

 

[venkatcr]

I really don't understand this reluctance to accept the results of the test, just because an AVR was used. A pre-power will not magically make one player sound better than the other. Yes, there is always synergy of components to be considered but this test was done with the equipment described and differences were heard. Why is the result less meaningful because of the AVR? At the end of the day, the Emotiva, in the given setup, was found to be better sounding. End of test, end of story.

As an aside, many of us do have this hybrid combination of HT and stereo in the same setup, either because of cost, space, or family reasons. AVRs today are much better in sound reproduction than before and basing one's opinion of a test only the presence or absence of an AVR is, to my mind, illogical. Those who have a dedicated stereo setup are lucky. Many members do not but that should in no way detract from the enjoyment they get listening to their music through their AVR of choice.

I think what many people have been missing is that this has been a comparison between 2 CDPs. We were not trying to judge a single CDP and rate it on any scale. We took two CDPs, put them both into the same environment, and heard how they sounded, and, which sounded better between the two. Since both CDPs had exactly the same environment, if one sound better, QED, it IS better.

And as I said before, if a CDP sounds bad in one environment, and better in another, I would look at it very skeptically. After all, how many of us can provide an ideal environment for a player? We buy equipment based on what we read and hear and that becomes our 'own' reference equipment. I am used to the sound of my speakers and I would use that to judge everything else in the chain. This is what even professional reviewers do. The only thing additional they do is scientific measurement to back or contradict what their ears heard.

Cheers

 

[harryanthony]

thekinge and Venkat,

Please forgive me if this has already been answered in this thread, i am writing to check if the Emotiva ERC-1 cd player needs a step-down transform or not for it to function in India.

Regards,

 

[mksharan]

I am a bit confused with this result.
Recently, I was trying to setup my system, I along with my wife auditioned these Denon systems at Profx, Kolkata -
Denon AVRs 1610 & 1910
Denon Integrated Amplifers -PMA 510 AE, PMA 710 AE
CD Players DCD 510AE, DCD 710 AE

Our requirement was 80% music and occasional movies. Initially, I was biased towards the all purpose AVR system, but after discussing with Asit da, he advised me to look at the 2 channel system and listen to them before deciding anything. This would be ours first system so we decided to limit our choice to Denon and tried different combinations. We used AR Rehman CD (sathiya), Colonial cousins (indian rain) Cds.

Though I must admit we are not very experienced, still myself and my wife (who has trained in Classical Hindustani Music) found the following results-

-The music quality from the Integrated Amplifier was far superior compared to that from the AVR. In fact the difference between the entry level (510 AE) and even a higher level AVR(1910) was like day and night.

-Between the integrated amplifiers 510 and 710 AE we liked the quality of 710.

- We tried the two CD players 510 AE & 710 AE, and could hardly find any difference between the two. The shop owner advised us to go for higher end integrated amplifier & speaker system to see the difference. Since, that would have been way above our budget we did not do so. Most importantly we were happy with the 710 amplifier and so we settled for it.

Manoj

 

[dranil]

Hi friends
Just finished reading all 20 pages of this thread.
Happy to hear about the mini meet here in Dubai.
I am also an AV enthusiast.
Eager to know the developments in this field
If any member from Dubai is interested to share their
knowledge with me, please email me so that I can give my
mobile number.
Thanks for reading

EMAIL ID- [email protected]

 

[thekinge]

thekinge and Venkat,

Please forgive me if this has already been answered in this thread, i am writing to check if the Emotiva ERC-1 cd player needs a step-down transform or not for it to function in India.

Regards,

It has already been answered in this thread here

 

[square_wave]

I am a bit confused with this result.
Recently, I was trying to setup my system, I along with my wife auditioned these Denon systems at Profx, Kolkata -
Denon AVRs 1610 & 1910
Denon Integrated Amplifers -PMA 510 AE, PMA 710 AE
CD Players DCD 510AE, DCD 710 AE

Our requirement was 80% music and occasional movies. Initially, I was biased towards the all purpose AVR system, but after discussing with Asit da, he advised me to look at the 2 channel system and listen to them before deciding anything. This would be ours first system so we decided to limit our choice to Denon and tried different combinations. We used AR Rehman CD (sathiya), Colonial cousins (indian rain) Cds.

Though I must admit we are not very experienced, still myself and my wife (who has trained in Classical Hindustani Music) found the following results-

-The music quality from the Integrated Amplifier was far superior compared to that from the AVR. In fact the difference between the entry level (510 AE) and even a higher level AVR(1910) was like day and night.

-Between the integrated amplifiers 510 and 710 AE we liked the quality of 710.

- We tried the two CD players 510 AE & 710 AE, and could hardly find any difference between the two. The shop owner advised us to go for higher end integrated amplifier & speaker system to see the difference. Since, that would have been way above our budget we did not do so. Most importantly we were happy with the 710 amplifier and so we settled for it.

Manoj

I am not surprised by your results at all.
The denon integrateds are pretty decent although a bit forward sounding for my taste.
Try to pair the denon amp with a slightly laidback cd player like Marantz. The speakers also need to be designed for music and not (HT). Avoid the polk available at Profx.

 

[mksharan]

Hi square-wave,
Yes, I quite agree with you, I have finally paired my amplifier with Marantz CD6003 player.

But the opinion that I am seeking from more experienced members is it all right for me to generalize (though I tested on Denon systems only)-

- Integrated stereo amplifiers give far better sound quality than AVR amplifiers.

- To really test CD players, one needs integrated stereo amplifier and moreover need high end amplifier and speaker systems to really tell the difference.

Best regards
Manoj

 

[thekinge]

Hi square-wave,
Yes, I quite agree with you, I have finally paired my amplifier with Marantz CD6003 player.

But the opinion that I am seeking from more experienced members is it all right for me to generalize (though I tested on Denon systems only)-

- Integrated stereo amplifiers give far better sound quality than AVR amplifiers.

- To really test CD players, one needs integrated stereo amplifier and moreover need high end amplifier and speaker systems to really tell the difference.

Best regards
Manoj

The music reproduction abilities of AVRs have come a long way and it is not correct to generalize by saying that an integrated amplifier will perform better than an AVR. While the common belief (and reasonably so) is that a stereo amplifier will be better for music than AVR, as you move up the value chain in AVRs, they are pretty good at stereo as well. The AVR I used, Onkyo TX-SR876 although is a late 2008 model AVR, it is a few notches above the value chain compared to the likes of Denon 1910. When it was released, it was considered a reference quality mid-range AVR.

Besides, the term high end is very open ended. What exactly is high end? What you consider as true hi-fi could be considered as only mid-fi by someone else. And in hi-fi world, even integrated amplifiers are frowned upon and separates are de-facto.

What you are asking has been debated quite a few times in this thread. Please go through the posts after my review post in page 12.

 

[mksharan]

Hi Dhilip,
I too dont want to get in this debate of mid-fi or hi-fi. We all have limited budget and try to get the best for that depending on our tastes and requirements.

The point I was making is that Denon CDP 510 AE/710 AE, or Marantz CDP 6003 or even emotiva ERC-1 CD player are entry level players.
When I hooked them (not emotiva) to the integrated amplifier (Denon 710 AE), I did not find much of a difference. Even the difference between Denon CDP 710 AE and Marantz 6003 was marginal.

Best regards,
Manoj

 

[marsilians]

I think what many people have been missing is that this has been a comparison between 2 CDPs. We were not trying to judge a single CDP and rate it on any scale. We took two CDPs, put them both into the same environment, and heard how they sounded, and, which sounded better between the two. Since both CDPs had exactly the same environment, if one sound better, QED, it IS better.

Venkat,

You are almost right in your statement. Given all things equal, if one player is better than the next then it could also be a function of how well the other components pair with it. So you cannot simply write off one just because it sounded bad, it may have a second life in another system.

I have seen Cambrdige audio players sound better/ really worse than some of the more expense Marantz or tube based players purely based on what its hooked upto. Yet it is one of the players I recommend for auditioning for potential buyers if such an option exists.