Three Queries

[issigonis]

>>>

I have three queries for our experts here.

#1 : My existing Philips Hi-Q International Stereo System GF 932/11S
This comprises the 1. Record player ( 33 1/3, 45 & 78 rpm), 2. Amplifier and 3. Speakers duo cone

The problem that I have is that

i. the input socket for one speaker ( a 5 pin DIN 180 degrees) isn't working
ii. the 33 1/3 records play slower
iii. the rotary potentiometers for the balance, volume, treble & bass create noise


Please recommend a reliable shop in Bombay where I can get honest service.


# 2 : I wish to build a hi-fi system comprising

i. a good turn table ( the basic requirement for a good hi-fi system, as I understand). I would like to invest for the long term, say ten years and so would require a rugged, well engineered turntable

ii a compatible tone arm

iii. cartridge

iv. phono- pre amp

v. power amp

vi. speakers

My listening will be Hindustani classical music, Rabindra sangeet, Western classical music with a dash of Hindi film music of the 50s-60s (the last being dependent on what I can get from the used record market).

I can go upto about 100k for the turntable-tonearm combo. I think these two will be the most critical components, along with the cartridge, of course. So I am stressing these.

Please suggest suitable combinations which would fit my requirements and budget.


# 3. I want to check out records of
i. Hindustani Classical - especially the old masters of the 50s/60s/70s

ii. Hindi film music - 50s/60s/70s primarily the compositions of SD Burman, Madan Mohan, Salil Chowdhury, RD Burman

iii. Western classical music - Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn,

iv. Jazz

Please recommend places where I can search and buy such records. I live in Bombay.

Its a humungous list.

Thank you for your support!

Regards

issigonis

 

[entsurgeon]

Goldenote valore with babele cart officially available in mumbai n reviewed in avmax jan. Issue(or maybe feb.)
U also got a pm mate all the best.

 

[arindamcc]

Goldenote
Model: Valore
Category: Turntable
Price:

Valore: Rs 72,000 :sad:
Dust Cover: Rs 18,000 :sad::sad:
Dumbo Filter: Rs 50,000 :sad::sad:
Phono 1 Preamp: Rs 60,000 :sad::sad:

 

[venkatcr]

A good place to start within reasonable budget would be with Pro-Ject turntables. Their latest model, the the RPM 1.3 Genie, is generating rave reviews all over the world. It boasts of an isolated and decoupled motor, a pulley driven platter, and a S Shaped tone arm to keep the needle as parallel to the groves as possible.

The Pro-Ject turntables are distributed in India by Nova Audio.

Cheers

 

[TaureanBull]

A good place to start within reasonable budget would be with Pro-Ject turntables. Their latest model, the the RPM 1.3 Genie, is generating rave reviews all over the world. It boasts of an isolated and decoupled motor, a pulley driven platter, and a S Shaped tone arm to keep the needle as parallel to the groves as possible.

The Pro-Ject turntables are distributed in India by Nova Audio.

Cheers

Any idea about the price in India? The TT looks really cool!

 

[venkatcr]

Any idea about the price in India? The TT looks really cool!

I am guessing it will cost between 30 to 40K. The US price is 500$.

Cheers

 

[G401fan]

For records:

Try Chor Bazaar, there are two or three dealers still out there (Salimbhai's shop is on Saifee Jubilee street)

Razzakbhai (near VT) Tel: 9820933365. He currently has a large stash of mint condition western classical LPs.

 

[TaureanBull]

I am guessing it will cost between 30 to 40K. The US price is 500$.

Cheers

Thats inching towards the technics SL-1200 prices! IMO thats available for about 55k in India.

 

[issigonis]

>>>

entsurgeon, arindamcc, venkatcr,G401fan,

Thank you for the quick response and the advice.
I have another query too - what should be my approach - I read somewhere that one should focus first on the source and then consider options for the downstream pieces viz. amps, speakers etc., for without a good turntable the sound output/quality will not be very pleasant.

That is why I am focussing first on getting a turntable within a reasonable budget and checking out compatible tone arms and cartridges and then go to look for phono pre-amps and the rest.

>>>
arindamcc,

Are you suggesting that the downstream pieces ( away from the source, i.e.,turntable + tome arm+ cartridge) are way more expensive than the source? Also what is this filter?

Regards
issigonis

 

[venkatcr]

I have another query too - what should be my approach - I read somewhere that one should focus first on the source and then consider options for the downstream pieces viz. amps, speakers etc., for without a good turntable the sound output/quality will not be very pleasant.

That is why I am focussing first on getting a turntable within a reasonable budget and checking out compatible tone arms and cartridges and then go to look for phono pre-amps and the rest.

I think you can do both in parallel. Shortlist a TT, and it's associated equipment along with the requisite phono-preamp. At the same time start auditioning some amps and speakers using a regular CDPs. At the end you can marry the two. I would be bashed for saying what works well with a CDP should work even better with a turntable.

In terms of amps, what you need to decide is which way you want to go - tubes or solid state. Tubes may have a little advantage over solid state viz-a-viz turntables. If you do go the tunes way, then you have to first look at a amp, the decide the matching speakers in terms of sensitivity.

Cheers

 

[jls001]

i. the input socket for one speaker ( a 5 pin DIN 180 degrees) isn't working
ii. the 33 1/3 records play slower
iii. the rotary potentiometers for the balance, volume, treble & bass create noise

Please recommend a reliable shop in Bombay where I can get honest service.
issigonis

i. Sanjay Raut at AVC Electronics in Shivaji Park should be able to help. Number 9820008982, 9757083033.

ii. Pandurang at Opera House should be able to help with the TT. Number 9619816225.

iii. Sanjay Raut again.
Joshua

 

[entsurgeon]

hi sir alec(sorry couldn t resist)
if you are building up from scratch, my advice is finalise a budget first.
then go and spend few hrs each at members with good rigs. check out rigs which are from all the price ranges not just your own one.
i have posted this elsewhere- for any given rig, the biggest factors affecting sound are room accoustics and source quality. source here means your perticular lp/cd/cassette.
what you spend on your rig is nothing in comparison to your software library cuz you cant just play mp3s on big rigs to max them out. but that expense is spread out over a very long period of time.
in my opinion, matching/synergy of components is more important then evaluation of any one equipment.
you should give long auditions to understand what suits your taste. and also plan for changing at least 1 component in future as you spend log time with you rig.
finally i must add that for a given user environment(read his music room and source material) theres always a limit to the best sound that could be discernibly extracted for any budget.
spending on equipments beyond that point will not yield any improved sound for a given user. so go for any decent mid end rig. rpm5 or technics sl1200 as suggested above wont give you a margin for complaints.
pair em with pro-ject phono box iise which will give you flexibility to pair em up with a range of amps.
finally dont ignore the ics and speaker cables. they make huge difference when compared to basic/generic ones.
all the best.

 

[issigonis]

i. Sanjay Raut at AVC Electronics in Shivaji Park should be able to help. Number 9820008982, 9757083033.

ii. Pandurang at Opera House should be able to help with the TT. Number 9619816225.

iii. Sanjay Raut again.
Joshua

>>>

jls001,

Thank you for your precise advice
Spoke with Sanjay Raut last evening and likely meeting him tomorrow evening with the set ( excl. the speakers).

hi sir alec(sorry couldn t resist)
if you are building up from scratch, my advice is finalise a budget first.
then go and spend few hrs each at members with good rigs. check out rigs which are from all the price ranges not just your own one.
i have posted this elsewhere- for any given rig, the biggest factors affecting sound are room accoustics and source quality. source here means your perticular lp/cd/cassette.
what you spend on your rig is nothing in comparison to your software library cuz you cant just play mp3s on big rigs to max them out. but that expense is spread out over a very long period of time.
in my opinion, matching/synergy of components is more important then evaluation of any one equipment.
you should give long auditions to understand what suits your taste. and also plan for changing at least 1 component in future as you spend log time with you rig.
finally i must add that for a given user environment(read his music room and source material) theres always a limit to the best sound that could be discernibly extracted for any budget.
spending on equipments beyond that point will not yield any improved sound for a given user. so go for any decent mid end rig. rpm5 or technics sl1200 as suggested above wont give you a margin for complaints.
pair em with pro-ject phono box iise which will give you flexibility to pair em up with a range of amps.
finally dont ignore the ics and speaker cables. they make huge difference when compared to basic/generic ones.
all the best.

>>>
entsurgeon,

Re. Sir Alec Issigonis, are you a motorhead too?
Re. your approach is right with one arriving at the sound quality ( which itself might be an inexact and subjective term) after multiple auditions. The records that I will buy now (western classical and jazz) will be new whereas hindustani classical records will be used ones, ditto for hindi film music too. Room acoustics is a given.

My budget is being constantly reviewed in the light of new info ( Pro-Ject Debut III retails for 23.5 k whereas the Goldenote Valore is at 200k) and so on.
I think I should budget around the Valore figure for the turntable-tonearm-cartridge combo.

Please continue the discussion.

Regards

issigonis

 

[entsurgeon]

fine. valore is good. all we infer from my prev post now is that you should treat your room accoustically too if it isn t already done. budget about 100k min. for that too.
a member from pune has just got a vpi tt for about 200k. he also got lyrita preamp and matching rig price wise. you may visit him personally some sunday. pm belsarr within the forum. he s a nice gentleman with good lps collection. a visit would be must and worth.
and yeah alec i am a motorhead as are many vintage fans here.
by the way this week sunday times quotes alec smart saying......******!!!!

 

[issigonis]

>>>

1. Visited Sanjay Raut today and gave him the turntable for inspection. He said that he would get back to me with a solution - would take some time as the system is an old one and finding spares will definitely take some time.

2. Will pm belsarr.


3. Have been visiting some websites; I am confused about the components that will require to build a new hi fi. Please check /correct my list of discrete components below :

i. turntable
ii. tonearm ( matching with the turntable)
iii. cartridge ( matching with both i & ii as above)
iv. phono pre-amp
v. line pre-amp
vi. power amp
vii. suitable cables ( for maximum power transfer?)
viii. speakers

My confusions :

a. Do I require a line pre-amp in between the phono pre-amp and the power amp?
b. Is there any matching required between the turntable-tonearm-cartridge combo and the phono pre-amp?
c. What are the criteria for an exact fit between the power amp on one side and the speakers on the other?

I am leaning toward valves for my amps and would consider speakers which are a good or an exact match with valve amps.

Regards
issigonis

 

[venkatcr]

a. Do I require a line pre-amp in between the phono pre-amp and the power amp?

Yes. Most pre-amplifiers work on an input of about 200mV and generate an output around 2 volts that an amplifier can further amplify. This is what is called the 'line' stage.

Turntables have two options - Moving Magnet (MM) and Moving Coil (MC). MC cartridges have very low output - generally in the 0.5mV range. MM cartridges generate an output of around 5mV. Both signals have to be boosted to around 200 mV that a line pre-amplifier can understand. So you connect a phono-preamp to the TT, and connect the output of the phono-pre-amp to any of the input sockets in your pre-amplifier.

b. Is there any matching required between the turntable-tonearm-cartridge combo and the phono pre-amp?

As explained above, if you get a MM cartridge you need a phono-preamp for that and a different phono pre-amp for MC cartridges.

c. What are the criteria for an exact fit between the power amp on one side and the speakers on the other?

Basically two things - impedance and power. Match the impedance if possible, and always have more power in the amp. There are good discussions in this thread.

Cheers

 

[issigonis]

>>>

Venkatcr,

Thank you for the clarification.

My list is now complete, to find the budget (exploring any connexion with the scamsters performing magnificently nowadays:lol :

1. Turntable [choices Pro-Ject, Rega ( Majik from Linn doesn't have 78 rpm; clearaudio can't be auditioned,says Soundsmiths), SME]
2. Tone arm (will consider them from the turntable vendor's list)
3. Cartridge ( not studied properly yet, advice sought from the experts here)
4. (Valve) Phono pre-amp ( not studied properly; how about Icon Audio?)
5. (Valve) Line pre-amp (ditto; how about Icon Audio?)
6. (Valve) power amp (ditto; how about Icon Audio?)
7. Speakers (for a room size of 130 sq ft; how about Icon Audio?)
8. Cables ( no idea yet)

This looks like a long journey.
Regards

 

[venkatcr]

If you ever visit Delhi, give yourself half a day and spend time with Viren Bakshi of Lyrita. He may be able to fulfill your needs for pre-amp, amp, and speakers. A audition is certainly worth it.

Cheers

 

[issigonis]

>>>

venkatcr,

I've already contacted Mr. Bakhshi.
Also, I find the products of Icon Audio intriguing, especially their PS3 phono pre-amp and their 'designed for valve amps' speakers - the MFV series.
Any feedback on Icon Audio product performance, especially in India?

Regards

 

[issigonis]

>>>

Venkatcr,

Thank you for the clarification.

My list is now complete, to find the budget (exploring any connexion with the scamsters performing magnificently nowadays:lol :

1. Turntable [choices Pro-Ject, Rega ( Majik from Linn doesn't have 78 rpm; clearaudio can't be auditioned,says Soundsmiths), SME]
2. Tone arm (will consider them from the turntable vendor's list)
3. Cartridge ( not studied properly yet, advice sought from the experts here)
4. (Valve) Phono pre-amp ( not studied properly; how about Icon Audio?)
5. (Valve) Line pre-amp (ditto; how about Icon Audio?)
6. (Valve) power amp (ditto; how about Icon Audio?)
7. Speakers (for a room size of 130 sq ft; how about Icon Audio?)
8. Cables ( no idea yet)

This looks like a long journey.
Regards

>>>

Is there any way that I can audition a clearaudio in /around Bombay?
Soundsmiths have clearly told me that turntables hardly get sold, you have to order, no audition possible.
Very unprofessional, I am sure.

I might be able to audition an SME - looking forward to it. Ditto Pro-Ject.
Don't have much info. on VPI.

Regards
issigonis