HTiB under 25 K

Home Theatre Systems

hemant3003

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Hi,

Am looking for a HTiB for my room approx 200 sq. ft. Budget is 25,000.

Can you please throw some suggestions ?

Usage would be more of 75:25 (movies:music). Am a lover for deep bass.

My current setup is a woodstock amplifier (SA-7000) with woodstock speakers. The speakers have a 8" side firing woofer.

Let me know if these can be used as front speakers with the new setup.

Regards

Hemant
 

riddick100

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Hi,

Am looking for a HTiB for my room approx 200 sq. ft. Budget is 25,000.

Can you please throw some suggestions ?

Usage would be more of 75:25 (movies:music). Am a lover for deep bass.

My current setup is a woodstock amplifier (SA-7000) with woodstock speakers. The speakers have a 8" side firing woofer.

Let me know if these can be used as front speakers with the new setup.

Regards

Hemant

With your budget & preference go for Onkyo 3100(20k)
If budget permits go for Onkyo 5100 with powered sub (30k?)
 

Krish82

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Onkyo 3100(20k) is good for movies, but i dont think the receiver has a sub out. Also the passive subs do not even enter the lawns of Audiophile categories. I have Onkyo HTS 590 for 2 years it has performed excellent for movies for a medium room.

If at all going for a HTIB go for Onkyo , and not brands like sony or philips.

You can use your same speakers with the receiver, but if the impedance of your speakers is rated @ 4ohms your receiver will get hurt.

Krish
 

madbullram

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Suggets, you take a Demo of Philips 4750 in Philip Arena and Onkyo's entry range and SOny HTB and decide which one you like the best.

For people in 25k budget, best would be a HTB like philips. The reason is today we are constrained with budget etc. So better buy these HTBs and later built a complete HT setup and move the HTB to your bedroom. As these are sleek they will till serve u well in your bedroom than selling them for peanuts.

Again, this is my reasoning based on my experience and also startup VFM models of Onkyo/Yamaha doesn't compare to Philips 4750 sounds processing ability and its VFM equation. Before some jumps, pls take a demo of both and post your views. This is a personal opinion after hundreds of Demos done in a 5 months period.
 

vint

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Suggets, you take a Demo of Philips 4750 in Philip Arena and Onkyo's entry range and SOny HTB and decide which one you like the best.

For people in 25k budget, best would be a HTB like philips. The reason is today we are constrained with budget etc. So better buy these HTBs and later built a complete HT setup and move the HTB to your bedroom. As these are sleek they will till serve u well in your bedroom than selling them for peanuts.

Again, this is my reasoning based on my experience and also startup VFM models of Onkyo/Yamaha doesn't compare to Philips 4750 sounds processing ability and its VFM equation. Before some jumps, pls take a demo of both and post your views. This is a personal opinion after hundreds of Demos done in a 5 months period.

one main problem with philips/sony or other branded dvdplayers cum ht is that of the contrainted input options. For ex: philips 4750 supports just one co-axial in. And with these kind of systems, i cannot change any of the speakers or the sub, if i want to later on. If I can get a entry level onkyo for a much cheaper price, i can change the sub to an active one, or buy better front speakers without changing the whole setup isnt it ? And the amount of input/output options the onkyo systems give is mindblowing.

There's onkyo hts5105, which is excellent for movies too + it has pass through hdmi as well. So check that out.
 

madbullram

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one main problem with philips/sony or other branded dvdplayers cum ht is that of the contrainted input options. For ex: philips 4750 supports just one co-axial in. And with these kind of systems, i cannot change any of the speakers or the sub, if i want to later on. If I can get a entry level onkyo for a much cheaper price, i can change the sub to an active one, or buy better front speakers without changing the whole setup isnt it ? And the amount of input/output options the onkyo systems give is mindblowing.

There's onkyo hts5105, which is excellent for movies too + it has pass through hdmi as well. So check that out.

Vin: You are going back to the motherhood question. This is not a HTB vs Individual. This thread is for a HTB setup. My take is:

1. Yes you can but today 1.3a is HDMI standard will the old onkyo support that? Technology changes its difficult to keep up even in individual components. Tomorrow (in 2 yrs) HDMI2 might come who knows. So in electronics nothign is future prooof.

2. Yes HTB inputs arent many. But you get switches. You can get multiple compoent in switch from MX for 500 rs and that solves the problem.

For example, my WD TV has only Coaxial digital output where my Philips has Optical Digital input. So i just bought a convertor for 150 rs and solved it. There is always a work around.

Personally, base don my experience, if you are the kind who wants to upgrade, then you wont buy a entry level receiver. You would invest in the latest so that 2 yrs down the line when you want to upgrade you receiver is in tune with technology. So i really dont see a practical sense in going for a entry level Onkyo or yamaha.

Also, consider the budget for under 25K, this HTB comes with a 1080 upscaling DVD player, USB based photo viewer, Divx certified etc. Its a perfect VFM.
 
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moserw

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Hi madbullram,

Ha ha. I see our kind of discussion continues on this thread too. Great place this with so many views and so much to learn and share. Rock on guys!!!
 

vint

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Vin: You are going back to the motherhood question. This is not a HTB vs Individual. This thread is for a HTB setup. My take is:

1. Yes you can but today 1.3a is HDMI standard will the old onkyo support that? Technology changes its difficult to keep up even in individual components. Tomorrow (in 2 yrs) HDMI2 might come who knows. So in electronics nothign is future prooof.

2. Yes HTB inputs arent many. But you get switches. You can get multiple compoent in switch from MX for 500 rs and that solves the problem.

For example, my WD TV has only Coaxial digital output where my Philips has Optical Digital input. So i just bought a convertor for 150 rs and solved it. There is always a work around.

Personally, base don my experience, if you are the kind who wants to upgrade, then you wont buy a entry level receiver. You would invest in the latest so that 2 yrs down the line when you want to upgrade you receiver is in tune with technology. So i really dont see a practical sense in going for a entry level Onkyo or yamaha.

Also, consider the budget for under 25K, this HTB comes with a 1080 upscaling DVD player, USB based photo viewer, Divx certified etc. Its a perfect VFM.
Well, I would say paying 18k on a onkyo entry level system is a far better investment than paying 22k for philips or for that matter sony or any other dvd player ht system. Agreed, electronics leaves us all behind but if i have to choose the lesser of the two evils, it'll be a entry htib like onkyo/yamaha with good connectivity options, great sound and a much flexible option to upgrade.

And from what i've auditioned, onkyo sounds superb for movies, and I feel its a great VFM at 18k.
 

Krish82

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See all electronic products are going to be back dated as we grow older, that doesnt mean that i currently buy the back dated one. We dont mean to offend Philips users at all , its a world renowned brand. You will only understand the need in the future, tomorrow if you audition some great speakers and want to buy it you will have to buy all seperates(receiver,sub) again one by one, atleast spending 30k extra.

Well i feel India is a country where electronics gets backdated @ less rate than other countries.
We may get bluray cheaper only after more 2 years, so we will be likely 4 years behind US/UK. So our current Equipments may last 4 years before any major upgrade. Ofcourse if we have throw away money we can upgrade daily but that will not meet the Price to performance ratio.

A 5000$ speaker may sound extremly good, but that doesnt means that it will sound 10 times better than a 500$ speaker.


Thanks
Krish
 

madbullram

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Moserw: You betcha! Thats th best part of the forums :D

Vint: Your point is quiet valid, preferences are many, like you said we have listed the pros and cons from our sides and now its upto the buyer to decide based on which side he sees more value. what do you say?

Krish: Absolutely, no way did anyone offend Philips user in this forum. All have just expressed their views thats all. Infact, I despise Philips service and expect for this HTB i dont own any philips system.
 

Sujit

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Everyone thinking they can upgrade components of an HTiB one by one need to understand that - ITS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to so so effectively!!

You cannot upgrade the speakers without upgrading the amp , and you cannot upgrade your amp without upgrading the speakers. Please go thru the specs -- UNDERSTAND THEM - then you will realise why! -- they are built to a budget and have very basic specifications!! In other words both are pretty much at the top end of their abilities! You might have been able to do something to upgrade if they decided to give older outdated albeit more powerful AVRs along with these kits - but again they are not doing that because they will again have to upgrade the speakers - therefore killing the cost benefit. Not to mention the bulk of the people who buy them have a habit of playing it full blast - with unmatched equipment you will end up frying various things and these companies will not be able to handle the resulting warranty costs!

Therefore please AUDITION the brands BEFORE you decide what you like - brand loyalties are useless, as are individual opinions (highly subjective - unless you and the individual share the same idea of sound and have done enough auditions together for you to immediately grasp what the other person means - even at the end of all that its highly subjective)

Be prepared to leave your prejudices behind when you go for an audition. If you cant, then just go and buy whatever you want - it is your money after all!:p
 
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moserw

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Welcome Sujit! Was missing you in this thread.

Hemant - Don't mind if we hijack your thread but all this discussion should help you and others too hopefully.

My opinion still stays the same i.e. in favor of the Onkyo. My only concern was/is/and will be what happens when the DVDP of the Philips breaks down and cannot be repaired. You will have to get a new HT system for all practical purposes. With the Onkyo if the external DVDP (most prone to breakdown and also most prone to requiring upgrades with new codecs and formats coming into play like Divx, H.264, etc.) all you will need is to get a new budget DVDP that will cost around 3 to 4K at the most. I have had this happen to me personally twice (with a Sony and an Akai) so I have sworn off integrated DVDP/Amplifier units forever and hence my quest to convince others too.
 

vint

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Vint: Your point is quiet valid, preferences are many, like you said we have listed the pros and cons from our sides and now its upto the buyer to decide based on which side he sees more value. what do you say?

totally, it all boils down to preference. At the end of the day you should be happy with your purchase :)

From my exp, I have a philips vcd player with two giant speakers (got a decade back i think). Just after 2-3 years, the whole setup got wasted, when dvd players came. I couldn't even use the speakers as the unit didn't have an aux-in. Now it works as a FM player in my home. But, since then, connectivity has been my top most priority. Like moserw said, I should be able to reuse the same unit with a ps4, xbox 720 etc etc :D
 

Sujit

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Welcome Sujit! Was missing you in this thread.

Hemant - Don't mind if we hijack your thread but all this discussion should help you and others too hopefully.

My opinion still stays the same i.e. in favor of the Onkyo. My only concern was/is/and will be what happens when the DVDP of the Philips breaks down and cannot be repaired. You will have to get a new HT system for all practical purposes. With the Onkyo if the external DVDP (most prone to breakdown and also most prone to requiring upgrades with new codecs and formats coming into play like Divx, H.264, etc.) all you will need is to get a new budget DVDP that will cost around 3 to 4K at the most. I have had this happen to me personally twice (with a Sony and an Akai) so I have sworn off integrated DVDP/Amplifier units forever and hence my quest to convince others too.

Hey Moser .. buddy... I really agree with you.. lol

All I was attempting to say was - the connectivity aside, you will not be able to 'upgrade' the HTiB without having to upgrade BOTH the amp and the speakers (which means pretty much buy a new one!) .. That's all!

In other words, if you want multiple connectivity options - BUY IT! But don't buy thinking that you can UPGRADE the components one at a time .. Other than the connected peripherals (PS3, DVDp and such), you cant 'upgrade' any constituent component of the HTiB itself!!

***phew*** ... There!! I hope I am forgiven? :D
 

Krish82

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Hey Moser .. buddy... I really agree with you.. lol

All I was attempting to say was - the connectivity aside, you will not be able to 'upgrade' the HTiB without having to upgrade BOTH the amp and the speakers (which means pretty much buy a new one!) .. That's all!

In other words, if you want multiple connectivity options - BUY IT! But don't buy thinking that you can UPGRADE the components one at a time .. Other than the connected peripherals (PS3, DVDp and such), you cant 'upgrade' any constituent component of the HTiB itself!!

***phew*** ... There!! I hope I am forgiven? :D
Can you state why cant we upgrade speakers for a Onkyo HTIB receiver like 304,505 ..Can you tell me how bad it will sound when you do so?
 

vint

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Can you state why cant we upgrade speakers for a Onkyo HTIB receiver like 304,505 ..Can you tell me how bad it will sound when you do so?

i think what he means is, u can still upgrade, but since these are entry level AVRs, good sounding speakers might not be compatible with them. So you can't pick any good sounding bookshelf speakers and replace it with the speakers in your htib, something more or less on similar lines as ur htib speakers is what can end up upgrading.
 

madbullram

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Can you state why cant we upgrade speakers for a Onkyo HTIB receiver like 304,505 ..Can you tell me how bad it will sound when you do so?

I am stating my POV. 304 I wont even touch so lets look at 505. Good receiver no doubt, future is bleak though. Main draw back for me would in 2 yrs Blue Ray will rule which means Tru HD or DTS MA which is loseless format.

Now, the HT experience is not just video but complete audio. Now 505 wont support Tru HD and Loseless through HDMI so you need to send through digital and which means its not Tru HD. Which means though you have a super blue ray player you still cant enjoy u r future in 505 bcos it wont support Tru HD of your Blue Ray. Even if you buy the best speaker etc but for what point? U r speakers play what your receiver sends and you receiver will send only Dolby and not DTS MA or Tru HD.

Can you do anything to upgrade? Nope, only buy 606 which supports and decodes Tru HD that.

Thats why i always say, people who r in the line of upgrade, should buy the Best receiver and affordable speakers and then upgrade one by one. Which takes time and money and the question how many poeple have these available?

This will never be the case for HTiB users whose requirement is completely different, they want good sound at a cheaper cost, VFM. Else we wont even have HTiB in the market. They cater to specific needs. So for a HTiB user in a budget of 25k anyday a Philips 4750 at 22k is better than Onkyo 505 at 30K plus a DVD 1080 player 4k.

Sujit: Sorry if I hijacked your reply :)

take my case: 2 yrs back, I wanted a good system at 25 to 30K. Philips offered the best option in 4750 and its still going strong. Now, 2 yrs down the line I will move this to my Bedroom and will go for my dream setup. So why didnt i go for Onkyo etc? Bcos i coundt afford and the philips did the same at a lower cost and it looks much much much Better in terms of Aesthetics and goes like a Glove with LCD/Plasma. So what I did, instead of paying 45K for Onkyo, i paid 28k for 4750 and invested that 17K which today is around 60K which will pay my Plasma pana :)
 
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vint

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don't want to pull this thread offtopic but, bluray phasing out dvd in another 2 years a very utopian scenario, atleast in India. Forget about tru HD and lossless audio and stuff, the bare minimum LCD TV still costs upwards of 25k (a decent 26") - which is nowhere near the grasp of the common public. Add to the fact that, each bluray costs around 1799 for an original and its impossible to pirate it - given the huge cost of br writers and br media. It will take well over 4-5 years for bluray to completely establish itself India, provided your next house dvd store guy decides to stack up enough bluray discs and rents it to you at an affordable price (read, sub 100).

Even now, inspite of 2 years after launch, the cheapest available bluray player is ps3, which costs 25k in India. So don't worry, you are safe for atleast the next 4-5 years with an upscaling dvd player and dts 5.1 surround sound ;)
 

moserw

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Hi all and especially my good friend madbullram!

A very valid point and one that's got me thinking right away of something different i.e. of upgrading my DVDs/Divx to True HD/DTS-MA where available. Some years ago I did not have a HT so my entire collection of Divx rips was in stereo and my DVDs in Dolby Digital. Once the HT came, I had to upgrade my entire movie collection (still in the process of doing it) and began to collect DVDs in DTS and Divx rips in 5.1. Now I find all these useless and instead have to start all over again, but this time around for HD video i.e. H.264 and HD DVDs like Blu-Ray. I can give DVDs a skip since a good upscaling DVDP like Oppo will output SD in HD, but not so much with Divx rips in SD. They do look great on my PV8 but that's only limited to 768 and not 1080p since its not Full HD. Now with madbullram's POV I am thinking even the H.264 in 5.1 are useless since I will be needing Divx rips and DVDs in HD audio in the future. Upgrading h/w like AVRs and speakers is a lot easier than having to upgrade your entire movie collection. I know since I have yet to replace all my Divx rips in stereo to 5.1 and DVDs in Dolby Digital to DTS (at least where available) and already H.264 rips have come along and now madbullram has brought up the subject of DTS-MA and True HD. I am sure the manufacturer's are having the last laugh in this ongoing cycle. LOL!
 

madbullram

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Moserw: I AM IN YOUR SAME BOAT :D

I have already started making all H264 and currently only in DTS as my WD TV wont support Tru HD. But I am saving the source MKVs so in 2 yrs when I have my full HT steup and I can re process tham into H264 with true HD :) Oppo supports True HD? How will it convert SD to True HD? I am lost here...

vin: 4-5 yrs if too far, 2-3 Blue Ray will rule Indian market. But both of us could be wrong :)
 
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