Mid to high end speaker options

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

i have always enjoyed the sound of focal's Electra and utopia line up compared to many other speakers i have heard in the past 15 years,.

Longshanks, can you advise on difference between the electra and utopia. The Diablo is high on my list, having heard it before, but have not heard the electras. Much appreciated.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[denom]

Re: Rockport technologies

I have heard the Focal Electra 1028be many times and found it to be a great speaker, If paired right i have always enjoyed the sound of focal's Electra and utopia line up compared to many other speakers i have heard in the past 15 years,may be that is one of the reason why some form of focal Electra is always part of my audio setup while other speakers keeps changing in my setup.

Eventus IO could be a good speaker but i have not heard it so could you let me where in India it is available for audition?

AVM A5.2T looks like an all in one integrated amplifier(amplifier not just dedicated to amplification) does not have peak to peak current rating and it produces 200 watts at 8ohm and does not double to 400 at 4ohms so i am guessing this is not a high current amp and generally middle range and high end focal speakers sing well when paired with high current amplifiers.

Eventus IO is available for demo in Mumbai.

As for your 2nd query of AVM 5.2T not having enough 'juice' to drive the Focal's, I also had the option of hearing the Focal's with AVM 420W monoblocks
AVM Audio - EVOLUTION MA3.2S

The pairing with the mono blocks did not change anything about the Focal's as heard earlier. They just had no excuse now :indifferent14:

Only after extensive listening session have I made the comment of the Eventus being Superior to the Focals.

FYI, the AVM 5.2T drove the Focal Stella Utopia's effortlessly so definitely not a lack of high current being delivered by the AVM's. That itself proved amplification was not the issue.

One more thing about AVM Amps, they have a tendency to expose the weak links in the chain, without having any overbearing presence. This fact one realises only when one hears them & subsequently appreciates them for what they do.

You are most welcome to come to Mumbai for an A/B of the above.

 

[soulforged]

Re: Rockport technologies

Sid, heard the Klipsch Palladium P39 last weekend. I was very impressed their sound - deep soundstage (a little high up due to their stature), smooth mids and very controlled bass...all this dispite their casual placement. They were being driven by Roksan Caspian, which is a great amp but the speakers deserved much better.

I am not sure but you can check with Cinebels if they can arrange for a home demo...

 

[longshanks]

Re: Rockport technologies

Longshanks, can you advise on difference between the electra and utopia. The Diablo is high on my list, having heard it before, but have not heard the electras. Much appreciated.
Cheers,
Sid

Electra is the most value for money in the focal line up for the amount of performance they deliver at their price, they are fast,transparent,extended,detailed and very good sound stage in terms of depth and width, i find them to be sweet sounding specially compared to speakers such as avalon,current B&W 800 series,Thiel,ATC SCM 19 and above(although i love the ATC SCM 19 and it kills my Electra bookshelves in the bass and transparency dept) and few other speakers i have heard recently.

Utopia has everything Electra has but it is more transparent and this is very noticeable, bigger deeper sound stage and after you hear utopia series and get back to Electra then you find Electra a bit boxy sounding,bass is more textured and deeper,definitely more details but still the same sweetness that Electra has.

This is my personal observation and i hope it gives some insight.

Eventus IO is available for demo in Mumbai.

As for your 2nd query of AVM 5.2T not having enough 'juice' to drive the Focal's, I also had the option of hearing the Focal's with AVM 420W monoblocks
AVM Audio - EVOLUTION MA3.2S

The pairing with the mono blocks did not change anything about the Focal's as heard earlier. They just had no excuse now :indifferent14:

FYI, the AVM 5.2T drove the Focal Stella Utopia's effortlessly so definitely not a lack of high current being delivered by the AVM's. That itself proved amplification was not the issue.

I guess my point was not clear or may be you understood differently, no where i said AVM 5.2T is not powerful enough to drive the Electra, in fact that's the amazing thing about these speakers, they don't need "watts" they just need quality "watts" with good "current".Focal used pair their grande utopia's with 40 watt lavardin amplifiers for their shows so that explains a lot, my post said AVM 5.2T might not be a high current amp and focal works really well with high current amps,its just like how certain high end headphones work well with OTL amp's while others don't.

When you say AVM 5.2T drove stella utopia really well that does not guarantee that amplifier is a good match for the speaker, i have a 200 watt power amplifier paired with a tube pre-amplifier which i used with my Electra bookshelf, but 2 years ago i switched to a 20 watt class A amplifier and there was day and night difference in the way the 20 watt class a amp made the Electra sing and i have not switched back, specially the speed and rhythm, i listen to a lot of 70's and 80's music so for me that is very important.

But anyways thanks for your insight and i hope i chance to listen the Eventus IO.

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Thanks Longshanks, I used to own the ATCscm19 as well. Excellent speakers. Yes I will consider the the Utopia series strongly, most likely the book shelf diablo.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[denom]

Re: Rockport technologies

Electra is the most value for money in the focal line up for the amount of performance they deliver at their price, they are fast,transparent,extended,detailed and very good sound stage in terms of depth and width, i find them to be sweet sounding specially compared to speakers such as avalon,current B&W 800 series,Thiel,ATC SCM 19 and above(although i love the ATC SCM 19 and it kills my Electra bookshelves in the bass and transparency dept) and few other speakers i have heard recently.

Utopia has everything Electra has but it is more transparent and this is very noticeable, bigger deeper sound stage and after you hear utopia series and get back to Electra then you find Electra a bit boxy sounding,bass is more textured and deeper,definitely more details but still the same sweetness that Electra has.

This is my personal observation and i hope it gives some insight.




I guess my point was not clear or may be you understood differently, no where i said AVM 5.2T is not powerful enough to drive the Electra, in fact that's the amazing thing about these speakers, they don't need "watts" they just need quality "watts" with good "current".Focal used pair their grande utopia's with 40 watt lavardin amplifiers for their shows so that explains a lot, my post said AVM 5.2T might not be a high current amp and focal works really well with high current amps,its just like how certain high end headphones work well with OTL amp's while others don't.

When you say AVM 5.2T drove stella utopia really well that does not guarantee that amplifier is a good match for the speaker, i have a 200 watt power amplifier paired with a tube pre-amplifier which i used with my Electra bookshelf, but 2 years ago i switched to a 20 watt class A amplifier and there was day and night difference in the way the 20 watt class a amp made the Electra sing and i have not switched back, specially the speed and rhythm, i listen to a lot of 70's and 80's music so for me that is very important.

But anyways thanks for your insight and i hope i chance to listen the Eventus IO.

No, I understood your point clearly & not differently. Yes amplifcation synergy is always key but finding an amp which does everything it is supposed to do & not add anything of its own is also a rare feat, which I liked about AVM. There were MBL amps also in the mix, pre with mono blocks to drive the Focals, but they were smashed by the AVM

Do come to mumbai to listen to Eventus/Focals/AVM. Will try to get the MBL's also but doubt it can be possible as they were shown the door literally

BTW, are you aware of the current pricing of the Electra Series??? Which ones do you own & what is the electronics pairing??? Kindly advise

 

[longshanks]

Re: Rockport technologies

Electra bookshelf starts at 2.25 lakhs approx and the floor standers are more expensive,I think a forum member here owns the diablo utopia and i think he knows a good source for getting focal speakers are very competitive price.

I have heard the entire line up of MBL and found them to do well on certain genre of music but not that impressive with others, also the pricing of the MBL setup at least for now is way beyond my budget and for that budget there are several options.

My Electra bookshelf is powered by musical fidelity and the source is highly modified NOS dac from audio zone using marantz cdp or macbook pro as the source with cables from nordost,oyaide and furutech.I also have a separate floor stander based setup with different amplification and cables.

 

[denom]

Re: Rockport technologies

Electra bookshelf starts at 2.25 lakhs approx and the floor standers are more expensive,I think a forum member here owns the diablo utopia and i think he knows a good source for getting focal speakers are very competitive price.

I have heard the entire line up of MBL and found them to do well on certain genre of music but not that impressive with others, also the pricing of the MBL setup at least for now is way beyond my budget and for that budget there are several options.

My Electra bookshelf is powered by musical fidelity and the source is highly modified NOS dac from audio zone using marantz cdp or macbook pro as the source with cables from nordost,oyaide and furutech.I also have a separate floor stander based setup with different amplification and cables.

Yes Focal prices in general have hit the roof post change of distributorship in India. As for sourcing them at best price, I know the same source & am privy to the rates/best price offered.

Yes, MBL was a disappointment especially at the price they are sold for.

You have the Electra 1008 Be, paired with which MF amp? I remember the Audiozone DAC as another FM had it for sale a while back.

Thanks for sharing info on your set-up.

 

[square_wave]

Re: Rockport technologies

but 2 years ago i switched to a 20 watt class A amplifier and there was day and night difference in the way the 20 watt class a amp made the Electra sing and i have not switched back, specially the speed and rhythm, i listen to a lot of 70's and 80's music so for me that is very important.

What is that 20 watt class A amp ? You can also PM me

Cheers !

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Did any FM's experienc dali epicon 2 bookshelves? I see the Mumbai HFV show had the epicon 6's which denom liked.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[mpw]

Re: Rockport technologies

dunno epicon but the dali dealer here has a demo helicon 300 for sale.

mpw

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

dunno epicon but the dali dealer here has a demo helicon 300 for sale.

mpw

Thanks Mahesh,
However most of the reviews state that the Epicon is a significant upgrade SQ wise to the helicon. I heard a Helicon floor stander - do not recall the model, here at the local dealer last year, and was not moved. So curious as to the Epicon, particularly the book shelf sound.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Ok guys so further developments in my attempted saga trying to get small standers as an upgrade. Sorry to say it has led nowhere:sad:. Higher end audio is tough both for buyers and sellers, it is the classic chicken or egg scenario, who comes first, buyers or dealers? Consequently very few models available for dealer demo, let alone home demo and the ones available for home demo are quite expensive as the dealer requires at least 5% unrefundable deposit just to home audition ( so a $ 20k speaker as you can calculate would be quite expensive) Also my research points to only one brand whose indian msrp is comparable to international prices. I mentioned the brand previously, so I have almost decided to get their bookshelf model, I know it will work in my room More or less. Secondly I have heard their higher end before and it is not offensive to begin with so buying blind should be acceptable. I am most likely going to hold on to my Harbeth Shl 5s as a second speaker because I am not really sure that any higher priced speaker will do both, sound better and work with my small room. It will sound different maybe leaner, more analytical etc. So, I will plan to get another bs in the $7k range and use it as an alternative to the warm, musical Harbeth sound. Will update the thread once I move forward.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Her Master's Voice]

Re: Rockport technologies

Also my research points to only one brand whose indian msrp is comparable to international prices. Will update the thread once I move forward.
Cheers,
Sid

There is a dealer in Bangalore who sells the outstanding Blumenhofer speakers for even less than the international prices.

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

There is a dealer in Bangalore who sells the outstanding Blumenhofer speakers for even less than the international prices.

Yes I have communicated with him as well and agreed, he has excellent pricing as well, below or at international pricing. I believe there is a fantastic offer on his small speakers going on right now. However I have never heard a Blumenhofer, so for me it will be totally blind buy, one I would like to avoid if I can.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[bhagwan]

Re: Rockport technologies

Ok guys so further developments in my attempted saga trying to get small standers as an upgrade. Sorry to say it has led nowhere:sad:. Higher end audio is tough both for buyers and sellers, it is the classic chicken or egg scenario, who comes first, buyers or dealers? Consequently very few models available for dealer demo, let alone home demo and the ones available for home demo are quite expensive as the dealer requires at least 5% unrefundable deposit just to home audition ( so a $ 20k speaker as you can calculate would be quite expensive) Also my research points to only one brand whose indian msrp is comparable to international prices.
Cheers,
Sid

Sir,
Lots of interesting observations;
I was surprised to read the observations you encountered...
You did not manage any Home Demo's ?
RT is sold in Hyderabad - yet no demo...
That same dealer sells so many products - I do not want to list them here - & he never offered you a demo ?
Besides Rs. 65/-K [non refundable] was asked of you for a home demo ?
I do not know what to say - surprised....
Someone I know - just got mono amps home from a D & D for 2 weeks & did not buy them & he was not asked to pay anything - except some drinks & dinner etc [basic entertainment] !!

If you are to buy a Speaker that will match with your Symphonic Line - it has to be a 'top end' product - you cannot get away with a half baked cake - I would not suggest you buy a product that is not up there - it will not be worth the effort & change cost - you will be back in the market hunting for a speaker in less that 6 months - just my humble feeling.

 

[Staxxx]

Re: Rockport technologies

Although I am also quite surprised by not being able to arrange a demo at home for expensive products which are definitely a hard sell in India, I am not sure that home demos of speakers anywhere are the norm. I have never anyway heard of an unrefundable deposit, particularly if you return the component as you received it.

I was recently lent a wonderful tube amp for several days - and this cost in the region of 17L - without any obligations by a very good D&D. However, I can believe speaker auditions are a more delicate thing perhaps to arrange and fraught with more possibilities of damage etc.....

All the best in your search.

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Sir,
RT is sold in Hyderabad - yet no demo...
That same dealer sells so many products - I do not want to list them here - & he never offered you a demo ?
Besides Rs. 65/-K [non refundable] was asked of you for a home demo ?


If you are to buy a Speaker that will match with your Symphonic Line - it has to be a 'top end' product - you cannot get away with a half baked cake - I would not suggest you buy a product that is not up there - it will not be worth the effort & change cost - you will be back in the market hunting for a speaker in less that 6 months - just my humble feeling.

Actually Bhagwan, I was in touch with the Rockport India dealer. They will not be bringing Rockport to Hyderabad, in fact as I understand they are not selling too many in India as well. So all he could offer me was a demo Mira 2 at their Bangalore showroom, which is a discontinued model. Any other model is available only upon full payment and no demo. I believe current entry level is 15lacs - pay upfront and they will deliver.
Actually 65k was not the amount asked but it was 5% of the speaker value in question - it was a different brand not Rockport.
Well I know what you are saying but here is my take:
1. Get a small floor stander in $20k range
eg: Rockport Atria, Dynaudio c2 etc. etc. without demo and take the risk of it overloading my room and selling it back at a big loss if I can sell at all, which will be a uphill task.
2. Get a high end bookshelf $7-$10k range from same mfrs (if they currently make bookshelfs), etg; Dynaudio C1, focal dibalo etc. etc. and be 100% certain that it will work in my room with most of the sound of its larger brother intact except for extreme deep bass.
I feel option 2 is better so that is what I am considering now.
Finally I would like to add what one D&D shared with me - he said "lower end products are volume driven so it is easier for us to offer demos etc., but at the higher end we hardly sell any so we cannot offer demos" - so I guess I can understand where they are coming from.
Anyways the last point is I am quite happy with the Harbeths - so I will stick on with them and look for a lateral move with a different sound.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

I have never anyway heard of an unrefundable deposit, particularly if you return the component as you received it.

Staxxx, I believe it is a trust thing. If I am a repeat customer then the D&D can work with me, but if I am unkown to him, then these kinds of things are brought in as an insurance, I suppose, due to unsavory practices indulged in by both sides in India. Anyways, since I am no newcomer, either to audio or to audio dealers, I am definitely not interested in these deals. In fact I have decided to steer clear entirely from D&D's who are charging international price + 30-50% on their products. I will work only with D&D's who offer international pricing. It will limit my selection, but if I like a speaker a lot, then I will take the pains to import it as I have done for my Harbeth.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Wanted to add another thing, in this past year I have spent about USD $10k on audio stuff, having bought 3 major components from 3 dealers one in California, one in Kolkatta and one in Bangalore. In all instances the dealers really worked hard, responded well, offered excellent prices and delivery. So I wonder when I am willing to spend close to double that amount on speakers, there is so little enthusiasm - shows the immaturity of the high end audio market in India I guess.
Cheers,
Sid