401/301 guys in Bangalore

[stevieboy]

Morning round 10.45 11? pm me your address. Any other bangalore guys want to hear the garrard 401?


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[stevieboy]

There might be a couple more guys rohit. Will get clarified by evening. In which case afternoon ok?


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[Finyl Vinyl]

There might be a couple more guys rohit. Will get clarified by evening. In which case afternoon ok?


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Why don't we make it about 6.00 pm? Have a movie date with a lovely lady at about 3.00. PM sent

 

[stevieboy]

A great day! Began with my furniture getting delivered then a lovely evening listening to two classics the 401 and the shure v15 played through a lexicon into wharfdales. Some superb records an intriguing sme arm that neither of us could place. Have to do it again more peacefully. Pic of the g by santhosh soon. Played some CDs too but it only served to reinforce the lack of soul with the vinyl we just went with the music santhosh and I were discussing this difference between cd and vinyl. Came back home to see the mechanic put on some vinyl on his project. A good vinyl day!


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[santhosh]

Yesterday was a great day for me as well. Will write more on that shortly (enroute to work, have an early day today). Here are some pics of the 401 until then. Enjoy!!:

 

[santhosh]

Like I mentioned, my day started off at 6AM with listening to some new music - Billy Ray Cyrus (had this on tape), Ella Fitzgerald, Miles & Diana Krall (all CDs) that I had bought on Saturday from Reliance Digital, followed by an extensive auditioning of my Dali Ikon 1 BS with my NAD integrated amp along with the prospective owners(my bedroom system which I had decided to let go with a heavy heart). Sampath(member from another audio forum) and his wife both "hardcore" music lovers btw came in at ~10 AM and we listened to the DALIs until 12, then some Vinyl in my Listening Den and then my Vintage System. At ~2.30, bid goodbye to them and my beloved bedroom system. I was comforted by the fact that they were going to a good home where it will be appreciated. Gobble dropped by at 3, we listened to some good old Vinyl (mostly what Gobble grew up listening). We then did some A/B comparison between the Audiosector DAC-1 and my Squeezebox Duet's DAC. At 6PM, Gobble and I started our 20+ km to Finyl_Vinyl's place in Gobble's Jeep-si (Gyspy with a modded suspension which made it just like my Jeeps). Enroute, we stopped by at the famous Warrier Bakery to pick up some snacks for the drive and for the session at F_V's place.

Reached Finyl_Vinyl's place at 7:30 but Gobble had to leave. Stevieboy was already there. Soon after the pleasantries, I turned around and there it was.... "The Garrard 401". Watching the platter spin and the SME arm mounted with the legendary Shure V15 tracking the grooves of the "Rome LP" .... was sheer poetry in (e)motion!!

And the music it was making was to die for. Finyl_Vinyl kept refilling our glasses while constantly changing LPs to play his favorite tracks from his collection of LPs.... Miles Davis, Danger Mouse, Rome to name a few.

At 9PM, we decided to take leave. If not for any early start today, would have loved to listen for some more time.

Another day F_V, will come back for more. Thanks for having us over.

Am I glad I made it! What a day!! For once, my Monday is not so blue.... for I have had my fixhyeah:

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Some superb records an intriguing sme arm that neither of us could place.

The arm on the 401 in the pictures posted by Santosh is the SME 3009 Improved tonearm i.e. it is the fixed headshell version.

Was there another SME arm?

Regards
Rajiv

 

[santhosh]

Hi,

The arm on the 401 in the pictures posted by Santosh is the SME 3009 Improved tonearm i.e. it is the fixed headshell version.

Was there another SME arm?

Regards
Rajiv

Thanks Rajiv, just one SME arm. Just that both Stevie and F_V found that the 3009 had some extra fitment(s) towards the rear portion of the arm. We wondered whether it was modded by F_V's late dad but F_V always remembered it being that way. Perhaps, Stevie would be able to add more detail or does "Improved Tonearm" have this extra fitment?

 

[stevieboy]

Hi,



The arm on the 401 in the pictures posted by Santosh is the SME 3009 Improved tonearm i.e. it is the fixed headshell version.

Was there another SME arm?

Regards
Rajiv

Just double checked, yup its the improved. For the life of me I can't remember why at that moment I just thought all SME arms had the rubber coupling. Then again I claim being under the influence of the Garrard sound and exonerate myself

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

See you soon again guys. Brilliant time. More records next time around

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,


Sorry if this is slightly off topic,but I think this is a pretty informative post about SME 3009/12 tonearms.

There is a huge amount of bollocks talked about arms IMO. Quite spectacular amounts of guff. Especially when it comes to rigidity. The simple fact is that there is no such thing as a rigid arm, i.e. a Zeta, SME V, Ekos etc are not rigid. If they were they wouldnt move as ball-race bearings need some slack as a fact of life. Similarly all materials resonate, all a designer can really influence is the q, the frequency and the amplitude of the resonance. It is all a compromise, and the early SMEs simply choose a different one to the later ones. There is no fixed task for an arm as all cartridges are different, therefore there is no correct approach for arm design. All have their uses from spindly unipiviots through S shaped SMEs, straight Zetas and Mission Mechanics through to huge heavy viscous damped things like Grays or things hanging on a thread like the Well Tempered or Schroeder.

There are two theoretical extremes in arm design, transmitting energy through to the deck to make the (mythical) closed loop and at the other extreme there is decoupling where the opposite is the intention. Neither can ever be a 100% solution as nothing can do either perfectly, i.e. things that aim to decouple still transmit some energy and things that attempt to direct couple always lose some. Its all a compromise. Compromises simply bring choices.

Now onto SME. For a start not all 3009s were created equal, and not all have the same purpose in life. Therefore it is impossible to generalise. A better question is which SME and what do you want to do with it?

The original 3009, Series II and Series II R are good usable arms today and will give very respectable results with many carts today. The 3012 and 3012R are even better. The Series II Improved is a little out of place in the modern world as it is lighter and was designed for high-compliance MM carts and there ain't many (any?) of them around these days, but it can still sound good. The Series III was even lower mass and unsuited to all but a handful of extremely high compliance 70s MM carts, it is of little interest these days other than as an ornament. There just isnt anything new that would suit it it wants something like a Ortofon VMS20 or a Shure V15III.

The real advantage of the early SME 3009, i.e, the MkI and Series II (not Improved) and Series IIR arms is that they can take an Ortofon SPUGT and there are not a lot of arms that can. The beauty of the SMEs in this context is that they have SMEs sliding baseplate so can achieve correct alignment of the SPU whereas arms having a fixed mount can not. I suspect this point alone drives the price as those who know in Japan really like their SPUs.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[quad]

Some superb records an intriguing sme arm that neither of us could place.

Could that be a Dust Bug or Groove Kleen?

What's a Dust Bug - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

 

[santhosh]

Quad,
The fitment in question was on the tonearm itself and not a separate cleaning arm with a dust bag.

 

[stevieboy]

Hi quad,

Not a dust bug, it's an sme arm as rajiv pointed out.

Regards


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[stevieboy]

Hi,


Sorry if this is slightly off topic,but I think this is a pretty informative post about SME 3009/12 tonearms.

There is a huge amount of bollocks talked about arms IMO. Quite spectacular amounts of guff. Especially when it comes to rigidity. The simple fact is that there is no such thing as a rigid arm, i.e. a Zeta, SME V, Ekos etc are not rigid. If they were they wouldnt move as ball-race bearings need some slack as a fact of life. Similarly all materials resonate, all a designer can really influence is the q, the frequency and the amplitude of the resonance. It is all a compromise, and the early SMEs simply choose a different one to the later ones. There is no fixed task for an arm as all cartridges are different, therefore there is no correct approach for arm design. All have their uses from spindly unipiviots through S shaped SMEs, straight Zetas and Mission Mechanics through to huge heavy viscous damped things like Grays or things hanging on a thread like the Well Tempered or Schroeder.

There are two theoretical extremes in arm design, transmitting energy through to the deck to make the (mythical) closed loop and at the other extreme there is decoupling where the opposite is the intention. Neither can ever be a 100% solution as nothing can do either perfectly, i.e. things that aim to decouple still transmit some energy and things that attempt to direct couple always lose some. Its all a compromise. Compromises simply bring choices.

Now onto SME. For a start not all 3009s were created equal, and not all have the same purpose in life. Therefore it is impossible to generalise. A better question is which SME and what do you want to do with it?

The original 3009, Series II and Series II R are good usable arms today and will give very respectable results with many carts today. The 3012 and 3012R are even better. The Series II Improved is a little out of place in the modern world as it is lighter and was designed for high-compliance MM carts and there ain't many (any?) of them around these days, but it can still sound good. The Series III was even lower mass and unsuited to all but a handful of extremely high compliance 70s MM carts, it is of little interest these days other than as an ornament. There just isnt anything new that would suit it it wants something like a Ortofon VMS20 or a Shure V15III.

The real advantage of the early SME 3009, i.e, the MkI and Series II (not Improved) and Series IIR arms is that they can take an Ortofon SPUGT and there are not a lot of arms that can. The beauty of the SMEs in this context is that they have SMEs sliding baseplate so can achieve correct alignment of the SPU whereas arms having a fixed mount can not. I suspect this point alone drives the price as those who know in Japan really like their SPUs.

Regards
Rajiv

Very true Rajiv, a well put together combination sings better than the individual parts.

My personal fav is the series II. While the admin on PFM has nailed it as far as mass of the types go he hasn't mentioned the knife edge bearings. The improved and R have the nylon knife edge, which is why I guess a popular mod is a new metal knife edge bearing from makers in germany and the UK that improves the performance of the respective arms. It's the second reason I put the Series II at the top of the heap.

Regards

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Honestly, the technicalities go over my head, but I like what I hear, so I'll live with that. Then, Steve, thanks for that tip on the pillar being too high. Have since adjusted it and cursed you every moment I spent doing it till I played back a couple of recs. Then you were blessed and thanked. The tone is much warmer now. The only disconcerting factor (and I'm sure I'll get used to it) is that the stylus takes a shorter time to descend on the LP. But yeah, it's all good.

The LP I popped on was the new Deep Purple-Come Taste The Band (the 2010 remasters) and it sounds really clean. The great part is that there is no feedback that the stylus is picking up, so there is "fidelity".

Psst. When do we hear your rig?

 

[stevieboy]

Honestly, the technicalities go over my head, but I like what I hear, so I'll live with that. Then, Steve, thanks for that tip on the pillar being too high. Have since adjusted it and cursed you every moment I spent doing it till I played back a couple of recs. Then you were blessed and thanked. The tone is much warmer now. The only disconcerting factor (and I'm sure I'll get used to it) is that the stylus takes a shorter time to descend on the LP. But yeah, it's all good.

The LP I popped on was the new Deep Purple-Come Taste The Band (the 2010 remasters) and it sounds really clean. The great part is that there is no feedback that the stylus is picking up, so there is "fidelity".

Psst. When do we hear your rig?

This weekend Sunday lets see, will check with Santhosh also. Good to hear you're getting better sound now, records will be safer too. The shorter time for your stylus to descend is better, less of a jolt when it hits the LP. It's not competing in the Olympic dive category now

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Stevie, here's a link to help you with your restoration

Garrard 301 Transcription Turntable

 

[stevieboy]

Hey thanks Finyl!

The garrard itself is in good shape oiled everything done. Just the arm rewire and a nice birch ply top plate and it's ready to go.

Regards


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[sachu888]

Hi stevieboy,

Cool Avatar pic.

Regards,
Sachin