Recommendations for an upgrade from HTIB

[Tanay]

Hi everyone,

I've had an Onkyo HTS-3400 HTIB for 8+ years now, and want to upgrade my receiver as well as speakers to make use of Dolby Atmos and 4k HDR. My room size is 15x10 ft. and viewing distance from my Sony X930E is approx. 7.5-8 ft.

My usage mainly revolves around streaming TV shows and movies on Netflix, Prime Video and Hotstar, watching live sports and playing the occasional game (will buy the Xbox Series X next year). I don't listen to music in this room at all.

I don't want to spend more than a lakh overall (tricky, I know!), and have zeroed in on the following. Can I please request you guys to share your opinions?

AV receivers:
- Denon S750H
- Denon X2500H (both approx. 48k?)
- Denon S950H (approx. 57k?)

The S series models offer Dolby Height Virtualization, HDCP 2.3 and eARC (my TV only supports HDCP 2.2 and regular ARC, and I'm not changing it for at least 5 more years), whereas the X2500H offers 4k upscaling (my TV supposedly upscales to 4k too, so should this be a consideration?) and Audessey MultEQ XT as opposed to only Audessey MultEQ.

5.0 Speaker packages:
- Taga Harmony 506 v2 (around 20k?)
- Taga Harmony 606SE (around 34k?)
- Pioneer S-RS55TB (around 34k?)
- Pioneer S-RS88TB (around 34k?)

Ceiling speakers:
- Polk Audio RC80i (approx. 20k?)
- Onkyo SKH-410 (approx. 19k?)

Confused about whether I should go for in-ceiling or Atmos-enabled speakers, since I don't want to drill holes in the ceiling and don't have a false ceiling. What I do have are two panels which are used for ceiling lights- one above the TV and another slightly behind where I sit).

Active subwoofer:
- Please suggest models.

I have attached photos of the room for reference, and would be grateful for any opinions and advice I receive. Thanks in advance!

 

[fLUX]

Hi Tanay,

Your current room layout looks beautiful

Due to your budget constraints and since you are already having Onkyo satellite speakers I feel you can postpone the purchase fo rears and atmos. You can use your 4 satellites as 2 rear and 2 towards atmos height speakers ( which would be better than upfiring atmos).

This will let you focus on the AVR, LCR and the sub for time being. I would suggest the below
i) Denon x2600h/ X2500h based on availability. If you can allocate more budget than SR5013 is a good choice as if you ever feel the need to get a PA/Dedicated IA it will come in handy
ii) For the front LR I would recommend for going for a QAcoustic Concept 20 bookshelf (around 38k) as floorstanders will dig into your budget ( 3050i will be about 60k). You can also alternatively go for a 3020i( around 21k).
iii) For center you can go for the Qacoustics Concept Center (27k) or 3090i(18k)

Since you already have a HTIB , I am not sure if Taga 606 will feel like a major upgrade. I had a Polk TL1600Htib before and moving to a Qacoustics based setup felt like a major upgrade.

On the subwoofer side too I would recommend to upgrade once you have the neccesary budget, you will need a budget of 30-45k for a decent subwoofer. Some options at that price range would be Yamaha NSW300 , Polk HTS-12, Bic America PL200-ii , you can also keep an eye on the used subwoofer for sale and get a SVS PB1000 between 40-45k

 

[Tanay]

Hi Tanay,

Your current room layout looks beautiful

Due to your budget constraints and since you are already having Onkyo satellite speakers I feel you can postpone the purchase fo rears and atmos. You can use your 4 satellites as 2 rear and 2 towards atmos height speakers ( which would be better than upfiring atmos).

This will let you focus on the AVR, LCR and the sub for time being. I would suggest the below
i) Denon x2600h/ X2500h based on availability. If you can allocate more budget than SR5013 is a good choice as if you ever feel the need to get a PA/Dedicated IA it will come in handy
ii) For the front LR I would recommend for going for a QAcoustic Concept 20 bookshelf (around 38k) as floorstanders will dig into your budget ( 3050i will be about 60k). You can also alternatively go for a 3020i( around 21k).
iii) For center you can go for the Qacoustics Concept Center (27k) or 3090i(18k)

Since you already have a HTIB , I am not sure if Taga 606 will feel like a major upgrade. I had a Polk TL1600Htib before and moving to a Qacoustics based setup felt like a major upgrade.

On the subwoofer side too I would recommend to upgrade once you have the neccesary budget, you will need a budget of 30-45k for a decent subwoofer. Some options at that price range would be Yamaha NSW300 , Polk HTS-12, Bic America PL200-ii , you can also keep an eye on the used subwoofer for sale and get a SVS PB1000 between 40-45k

Thank you, kind sir

Wish I could focus on upgrading a few things now, and the rest over time. But unfortunately, 1 lakh is a grudgingly negotiated "This is how much you can spend on upgrading your home theater" budget sanctioned by the wife!

The idea came about because I plan to buy the Xbox Series X, and felt that I might as well ensure that I experience Dolby Atmos on it as well.

- Thought of going for a 5.0 speaker package since buying speakers individually would be quite expensive.
- Assumed any speaker package will be a marked improvement on my HTIB speakers (got the receiver + speakers + subwoofer for 25-30k back in 2012 after all!)
- I read that all the receivers I listed would allow me to do a 5.2.2 setup, and therefore let me add 2 subwoofers. Is my understanding incorrect?

 

[fLUX]

The only way around this is to take your wife to the demo and keep praising the brand you want to purchase

Jokes apart , 30k in 2012 would mean a system worth atleast 50k-55k going by rates at which other speaker prices have increased. If you have a strict budget, the Taga 606 has been recommended by many and might be a good option. You can go for the x2600h/2500h as it will provide more power something which you will need for higher volume listening, eARC is useless since you will be using a Xbox Series via the HDMI your AVR and height virtualization is pointless again since you are purchasing atmos speakers.

Regardless you will need to spend atleast 30k+ for a subwoofer, till.then it's better to use your current sub itself.

You are right that 5.2.2 will allow atmos and 2 subwoofers , but if you use two different subwoofer then bass outputs would.not sync and will be out of place. You could search on the forum and you will find many topics detailing the same.

 

[Marakk]

I would suggest not buying any speaker for which the frequency response measurements are not available. Some even expensive and famous speakers have really sub par, even bad, frequency response.

Subjective reviews don't reveal much, as research has also shown. Read Loudspeaker and Rooms by Floyd Toole if you want to know more.

Pioneer SP-BS22 is a budget speaker that measures well. Check audiosciencereview for more details.

 

[avtar2008]

I would suggest not buying any speaker for which the frequency response measurements are not available. Some even expensive and famous speakers have really sub par, even bad, frequency response.

Are you referring to q acoustics speakers here?

 

[deserteagle]

The only way around this is to take your wife to the demo and keep praising the brand you want to purchase

This thing really works
I was in same place a year ago and my wife was against the idea of setting up home theatre. She was only fine with soundbar earlier so I took her to the demo and she agreed even for floor standers.

 

[Marakk]

Are you referring to q acoustics speakers here?

No. There are many examples in reviews by Amir on audiosciencereview though. Check them out.

 

[fLUX]

I would suggest not buying any speaker for which the frequency response measurements are not available. Some even expensive and famous speakers have really sub par, even bad, frequency response.

Subjective reviews don't reveal much, as research has also shown. Read Loudspeaker and Rooms by Floyd Toole if you want to know more.

Pioneer SP-BS22 is a budget speaker that measures well. Check audiosciencereview for more details.

In case of speakers for me while FR curves do give an idea about possible shortcomings but doesn't necessarily translate into a good/bad speaker. The way the chain along with the speakers match to present the music (soundstage, the depth & emotionality of the vocals) play a much more important role in my decision. Only way to determine above is via auditions in the absence of which rely on FR + Subjective reviews

 

[Marakk]

In case of speakers for me while FR curves do give an idea about possible shortcomings but doesn't necessarily translate into a good/bad speaker. The way the chain along with the speakers match to present the music (soundstage, the depth & emotionality of the vocals) play a much more important role in my decision. Only way to determine above is via auditions in the absence of which rely on FR + Subjective reviews

I would again suggest you read Loudspeaker and Rooms by Floyd Toole. Estimated in room response is a mixture of direct sound and reflections too. Horizontal dispersion is also important, and that covers soundstage.

Studies have shown that even in blind testing speakers with certain characteristics, a flat sloping down response with good dispersion, are preferred over others regardless of the room in which they are placed.

Instead of me trying to pass on the info, get it from the source. Read the book.

 

[Tanay]

I would suggest not buying any speaker for which the frequency response measurements are not available. Some even expensive and famous speakers have really sub par, even bad, frequency response.

Subjective reviews don't reveal much, as research has also shown. Read Loudspeaker and Rooms by Floyd Toole if you want to know more.

Pioneer SP-BS22 is a budget speaker that measures well. Check audiosciencereview for more details.

Are you suggesting two pairs of Pioneer SP-BS22's for the front and rear, along with a center speaker? Any recommendation for the latter?

 

[Tanay]

The only way around this is to take your wife to the demo and keep praising the brand you want to purchase

Jokes apart , 30k in 2012 would mean a system worth atleast 50k-55k going by rates at which other speaker prices have increased. If you have a strict budget, the Taga 606 has been recommended by many and might be a good option. You can go for the x2600h/2500h as it will provide more power something which you will need for higher volume listening, eARC is useless since you will be using a Xbox Series via the HDMI your AVR and height virtualization is pointless again since you are purchasing atmos speakers.

Regardless you will need to spend atleast 30k+ for a subwoofer, till.then it's better to use your current sub itself.

You are right that 5.2.2 will allow atmos and 2 subwoofers , but if you use two different subwoofer then bass outputs would.not sync and will be out of place. You could search on the forum and you will find many topics detailing the same.

- The X2500H is available for around 48-49k, and the X3500H for approx. 75k. I will probably not be able to afford the latter anyway, but do you guys think it is worth the extra 26-27k? Is the difference transformational or "night and day" by any chance?

- In case I don't go for any "Atmos-enabled" speakers and rely on regular in-ceiling speakers instead, would the Dolby Height Virtualization make the S750H (48k) or S950H (57k) make them the better choice?

- I read that the X series receivers have an additional year of warranty compared to the S series. Is this true for Denon in India as well? The dealer I visited today was trying to push me away from X2500H and towards S750H claiming that a 2019 model would be better supported than a 2018 model.

 

[Marakk]

Are you suggesting two pairs of Pioneer SP-BS22's for the front and rear, along with a center speaker? Any recommendation for the latter?

Yes! Get the matching center. If you want tower speakers, you'll probably have to extend your budget.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Tanay]

Yes! Get the matching center. If you want tower speakers, you'll probably have to extend your budget.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you. One placement issue in my case though, which you might find peculiar. On the advice of the guy who installed the Onkyo HTIB years ago, I put both my front and rears speakers approx. 4 ft. above ear level and I suspect that is too high. (photos posted above).
Getting floor standing speakers would help me correct that issue. Getting bookshelf speakers would mean putting them way above again, since I can't afford to place them at/near ear level without tampering with the connecting wires, which are "nailed" to the wall and painted over.

 

[Marakk]

Thank you. One placement issue in my case though, which you might find peculiar. On the advice of the guy who installed the Onkyo HTIB years ago, I put both my front and rears speakers approx. 4 ft. above ear level and I suspect that is too high. (photos posted above).
Getting floor standing speakers would help me correct that issue. Getting bookshelf speakers would mean putting them way above again, since I can't afford to place them at/near ear level without tampering with the connecting wires, which are "nailed" to the wall and painted over.

Yup! Too high. Shortlist tower speakers which fall in your budget and see if you can find reliable data about any of them. As you can check from reviews on the website, many popular models are more show than balanced performance. Some can be corrected by EQ. Some can't.

 

[OM_2K19]

@fLUX has covered pretty much everything. You will really see the difference with Qacoustics based set-up. If possible go for an audition and you can hear the difference firsthand.

 

[fLUX]

I would again suggest you read Loudspeaker and Rooms by Floyd Toole. Estimated in room response is a mixture of direct sound and reflections too. Horizontal dispersion is also important, and that covers soundstage.

Studies have shown that even in blind testing speakers with certain characteristics, a flat sloping down response with good dispersion, are preferred over others regardless of the room in which they are placed.

Instead of me trying to pass on the info, get it from the source. Read the book.

Thanks , will read further to understand the same.

I am merely talking based on my listening experience that speakers which measure good didn't neccesarily translate into an enjoyable listening experience, due to our own individual preferences for me audition + reviews hold much more value even if the FR curve indicates otherwise.

 

[fLUX]

Thank you. One placement issue in my case though, which you might find peculiar. On the advice of the guy who installed the Onkyo HTIB years ago, I put both my front and rears speakers approx. 4 ft. above ear level and I suspect that is too high. (photos posted above).
Getting floor standing speakers would help me correct that issue. Getting bookshelf speakers would mean putting them way above again, since I can't afford to place them at/near ear level without tampering with the connecting wires, which are "nailed" to the wall and painted over.

Floorstanders will be more expensive, generally speaking atleast 2 times the cost of the equivalent Bookshelf. I believe you would need to pull the wiring in a similar manner for the FS as with a BS. If that is the case stay with bookshelfs (arrange for stands) and you can use the 4-5 Feet above ear level wiring as Atmos Front Height speakers (i had done a similar mistake on the rear side and hence i am using my system as a 7.1 with rear height surrounds)

- The X2500H is available for around 48-49k, and the X3500H for approx. 75k. I will probably not be able to afford the latter anyway, but do you guys think it is worth the extra 26-27k? Is the difference transformational or "night and day" by any chance?

- In case I don't go for any "Atmos-enabled" speakers and rely on regular in-ceiling speakers instead, would the Dolby Height Virtualization make the S750H (48k) or S950H (57k) make them the better choice?

- I read that the X series receivers have an additional year of warranty compared to the S series. Is this true for Denon in India as well? The dealer I visited today was trying to push me away from X2500H and towards S750H claiming that a 2019 model would be better supported than a 2018 model.

The X3500H is worth the extra amount due to the following reasons
i) It has Audyssey MultEQ® XT32 which is by far superior to the Audyssey MultiEQ XT for room correction. Have personally observed the same with a X2600H vs X4500H
ii) It has pre-outs for all channels , which basically means if you ever feel the need for more power in future you can connect power amplifiers for all channels/ alternatively you can connect power amplifier for front channels which is what many of us do to get the desired power output for stereo application
iii) There would be relative improvements in the sound processing for movies as well, but certainly not a day and night difference.

The Dolby Virtualization i have never tried and dont intend to do so either , even with dedicated upfiring atmos speakers the height effects are not clear as the ceiling speakers so not sure how good the virtualization would be. Better to invest in a height/ceiling setup if not now then in the future.


On the warranty side i believe its standard 1 year of warranty for all the Denon models , not too sure though. 2020 models have released so as per few other dealers 2019 models wont get support and its better to buy the latest one (I hope you get my point ).

 

[fLUX]

Also Tanay just to add , if you are open to used speakers there are a few deals going on for a year old used speakers i see on the for sale thread , you can consider those as well. Will save you a lot of money and get a good system within budget as well (3020i for 18k and Zensor 3 28k). I started off with an entirely used system (QAcoustics Concept 20 , 3090i & 3020i) for about 55k which otherwise would have cost me about 80k+ based on current prices in the market.

 

[Tanay]

Also Tanay just to add , if you are open to used speakers there are a few deals going on for a year old used speakers i see on the for sale thread , you can consider those as well. Will save you a lot of money and get a good system within budget as well (3020i for 18k and Zensor 3 28k). I started off with an entirely used system (QAcoustics Concept 20 , 3090i & 3020i) for about 55k which otherwise would have cost me about 80k+ based on current prices in the market.

Yes, thank you. I'm looking at them as well, but nothing I need seems to be available in Delhi/NCR. Can I assume that getting speakers shipped won't affect their quality in any way?