Indeed the deal could be geniune but there seems to be no way to find out, unless we go to Onkya office and check this matter.
V.
V.
ONKYO 3300 only for 20K (Group buy)
- Thread starter kunaljain
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Well everyone is going to say that his post is genuine, so this is no big deal.
Well to gain confidence one can always say that the payment can wait and will collect later. About the payments being in company name is also no big deal, cheques can be washed with some chemical and then the fraud is done. Well no one is going to ask cash if one is indulging in fraud, because he knows one will show full reluctance in giving cash, but cheque one may not hesitate.
About the direct billing in other cites, one can always do this as confidence building exercise.
Well it continues to surprise me when you say that you are making all efforts for a safe deal which does not look so, though your intentions may be geniune. About the KYC, less spoken the better, there are ways to trick this.
Well it is interesting to note that you do not have time for these petty amounts, you see we are not as rich as you that we do not guard our monies. If one is rich how much ever, it is wise to look for price discounts. I think it will be foolish if one does not avail discount options.
It is no doubt one has to make a lot of efforts to get a unique deal but that does not give us an opportunity to throw caution.
Indeed i know that initially you had said that one can accompany you at the time of making payment, but in the later posts it was not being properly confirmed, laced with delayed replies, etc.
I think you should not be pained with my writing, all i am talking about is risk management, and you are taking it otherwise.
Indeed the debate is on, we shall take it forward right through night, if need be but it surprises me how you will clear my doubts because you are adding new angles, let us try, all the best to both of us.
V.
Well to gain confidence one can always say that the payment can wait and will collect later. About the payments being in company name is also no big deal, cheques can be washed with some chemical and then the fraud is done. Well no one is going to ask cash if one is indulging in fraud, because he knows one will show full reluctance in giving cash, but cheque one may not hesitate.
About the direct billing in other cites, one can always do this as confidence building exercise.
Well it continues to surprise me when you say that you are making all efforts for a safe deal which does not look so, though your intentions may be geniune. About the KYC, less spoken the better, there are ways to trick this.
Well it is interesting to note that you do not have time for these petty amounts, you see we are not as rich as you that we do not guard our monies. If one is rich how much ever, it is wise to look for price discounts. I think it will be foolish if one does not avail discount options.
It is no doubt one has to make a lot of efforts to get a unique deal but that does not give us an opportunity to throw caution.
Indeed i know that initially you had said that one can accompany you at the time of making payment, but in the later posts it was not being properly confirmed, laced with delayed replies, etc.
I think you should not be pained with my writing, all i am talking about is risk management, and you are taking it otherwise.
Indeed the debate is on, we shall take it forward right through night, if need be but it surprises me how you will clear my doubts because you are adding new angles, let us try, all the best to both of us.
V.
If few people were willing to send the payment to you then it is not a good move by them, after all we hardly know each other, like in your case you are quite new to this forum, with limited posts.
It does not matter whatever private messages or calls you were getting, to tape the conversations you will require a special software.
Indeed you must have not discussed payments, but for that there can be reasons.
V.
It does not matter whatever private messages or calls you were getting, to tape the conversations you will require a special software.
Indeed you must have not discussed payments, but for that there can be reasons.
V.
Kittu,
It is very true that the world becomes a better place if one puts geniune efforts and it is very right when we ask questions etc because who wants to fall in a con trap if any.
It is our moral responsibility that the members should not be taken for a ride because if this happens it is going to hurt us also, the scope of hurt grows bigger when it is not done in a professional manner, like giving no value to a proforma invoice for unfounded reasons etc.
V.
It is very true that the world becomes a better place if one puts geniune efforts and it is very right when we ask questions etc because who wants to fall in a con trap if any.
It is our moral responsibility that the members should not be taken for a ride because if this happens it is going to hurt us also, the scope of hurt grows bigger when it is not done in a professional manner, like giving no value to a proforma invoice for unfounded reasons etc.
V.
Nikhil,
No doubts you may be putting your best efforts to get this done for forum members. But there is nothing wrong someone asking few questions or raising doubts .. Afterall we are just online forum members.... When the sale is taken place as a group buy it becomes a huge responsibility to execute it in a professional way. No doubt you did your best but dont take it wrong if members like me (noobies) ask for some proforma invoice or any other relavant document. I am still not sure why the deal is calledoff in last moment. Any ways lets call this an end on a good note and hopefully some day we will make a big group buy of some nice SUVs.....
Kittu
I just casually ended up on this thread after a couple of days as I had initially opted out of the deal for personal reasons. Now reading the entire thread (and yes, I HAVE read this entire thread), I honestly feel that it was good to opt out.
I strongly support Vinay's line of thought and if I were a part of this deal, I'd definitely have asked similar questions. In a court of law, everyone by default is innocent unless proved guilty. In online deals it's exactly the opposite. Everyone looks at the deal manager to be someone who'd not be completely honest. I've seen this happen multiple times in many deals in various Indian forums (tech and non-tech).
I'd definitely not have parted with my 20K by writing a cheque on any company's name and sending it across. I am aware of how these cheques can be manipulated. In fact I've even heard of cartels operating in Mumbai where these courierwalas who flick the cheques from posts can encash them at a lower rate.
So the doubts/concerns raised by Vinay are definitely genuine. He's not said anything which he as a consumer should not have asked. In fact he's tried asking in subtle terms and has never once raised the doubt blatantly. If all of a sudden the deal is called of, there's some suspicion. It may be directed at the deal originator, the supporters (both of whom have quite a few posts and are comparatively newer members), or the end person they were dealing with. It's very much possible that someone was making a fool of Nikhil himself by posing as Onkyo.
Vinay - Thanks for saving quite a few people their hard earned money.
I strongly support Vinay's line of thought and if I were a part of this deal, I'd definitely have asked similar questions. In a court of law, everyone by default is innocent unless proved guilty. In online deals it's exactly the opposite. Everyone looks at the deal manager to be someone who'd not be completely honest. I've seen this happen multiple times in many deals in various Indian forums (tech and non-tech).
I'd definitely not have parted with my 20K by writing a cheque on any company's name and sending it across. I am aware of how these cheques can be manipulated. In fact I've even heard of cartels operating in Mumbai where these courierwalas who flick the cheques from posts can encash them at a lower rate.
So the doubts/concerns raised by Vinay are definitely genuine. He's not said anything which he as a consumer should not have asked. In fact he's tried asking in subtle terms and has never once raised the doubt blatantly. If all of a sudden the deal is called of, there's some suspicion. It may be directed at the deal originator, the supporters (both of whom have quite a few posts and are comparatively newer members), or the end person they were dealing with. It's very much possible that someone was making a fool of Nikhil himself by posing as Onkyo.
Vinay - Thanks for saving quite a few people their hard earned money.
I must say thinks to Vinay:clapping:, now I will think 100 times before opting for a deal like this...(I am not saying this deal was a fraud)
All the questions Vinay has raised are genuine, and i think every one should take this as a lesson for any future online deals
All the questions Vinay has raised are genuine, and i think every one should take this as a lesson for any future online deals
Well who should pity who is any one's guess.
The measures which you are taking has no boundary, please show some concrete ways by which suspect level is dropped. While that is a another story you may be genuine to the core which i have maintained from the start.
As far as calling up goes, i need to tell you that since last few months i have not been using my cell, unless it is rarest of rare case. If you wanted to meet me, you could have sent me a private message, and i would have welcomed you there and then.
If i have a luxury house then naturally i will sit there, about the dish part, please i am not from the cooking world. About the questions which you have already answered, i think you are not reading my posts well, i explained you at length so please try to read them again.
I need to assure you that i can read the posts carefully, please give me a few reasons why you think otherwise.
Well if you read my posts in these 3 years, then you will realize that i can take a good lead in helping, but for that you need to read the posts carefully.
V.
The measures which you are taking has no boundary, please show some concrete ways by which suspect level is dropped. While that is a another story you may be genuine to the core which i have maintained from the start.
As far as calling up goes, i need to tell you that since last few months i have not been using my cell, unless it is rarest of rare case. If you wanted to meet me, you could have sent me a private message, and i would have welcomed you there and then.
If i have a luxury house then naturally i will sit there, about the dish part, please i am not from the cooking world. About the questions which you have already answered, i think you are not reading my posts well, i explained you at length so please try to read them again.
I need to assure you that i can read the posts carefully, please give me a few reasons why you think otherwise.
Well if you read my posts in these 3 years, then you will realize that i can take a good lead in helping, but for that you need to read the posts carefully.
V.
vaibhavyagnik
Active Member
Guys, stop commenting. Its just a deal that did not work out and thats that. its not a deal where you got cheated, your cheques were misused, items were not delievered. It did not work out and it ends there. lets stop wasting our energy and look out for some better opportunity.
nikhil: Thanks for your work and effort. I really appreciate it.
Request the moderator to lock this thread
nikhil: Thanks for your work and effort. I really appreciate it.
Request the moderator to lock this thread
Well about your proforma invoice's clear answer, be assured your reply brings a lot of disgrace to a company like Onkays, when they told you that they can not take the effort to do such a huge work, i hope you were not cracking a joke.
Well about i not accepting mistakes, you must first realize where is the mistake and with who. I do not have any gun, please do not spread such rumors.
Indeed you can help us to read the post, but first you need to help yourself.
It is you the other way round, who is jumping to conclusions that we should deal without the proper basic documentation, replies and related.
V.
Well about i not accepting mistakes, you must first realize where is the mistake and with who. I do not have any gun, please do not spread such rumors.
Indeed you can help us to read the post, but first you need to help yourself.
It is you the other way round, who is jumping to conclusions that we should deal without the proper basic documentation, replies and related.
V.
Hello Nikhil,
Well if i will handle the things in wrong way then my integrity too will be in doubt, this is universal with all of us.
I wonder by which grounds you can imagine that i never knew that you had replied to my queries. If i am pointing out something, by no standard it means that i am making allegations, all i have been doing is calling a spade as spade.
Well if you have answered questions repeatedly, then be assured i too have answered accordingly.
It surprises me when you say that i have not made efforts in contacting you, please read the thread, and see with how much gaps you are replying, and that too in-complete, etc.
If you mean that i should contact you via private message, then this is not my cup of tea, i prefer in the open, which is good for all of us. About sharing my number, i have written to you that i have stopped using my cell to a great extent.
I continue to be at loss, why do you need the contact details, Onkay's is not foolish to ask for the private detail of members, they are more concerned to receive the payment, then only they will look for the contact details.
If you have seen enough of the world then all the more you should be able to understand and not be otherwise.
Well your answers are more of back door nature.
V.
Well if i will handle the things in wrong way then my integrity too will be in doubt, this is universal with all of us.
I wonder by which grounds you can imagine that i never knew that you had replied to my queries. If i am pointing out something, by no standard it means that i am making allegations, all i have been doing is calling a spade as spade.
Well if you have answered questions repeatedly, then be assured i too have answered accordingly.
It surprises me when you say that i have not made efforts in contacting you, please read the thread, and see with how much gaps you are replying, and that too in-complete, etc.
If you mean that i should contact you via private message, then this is not my cup of tea, i prefer in the open, which is good for all of us. About sharing my number, i have written to you that i have stopped using my cell to a great extent.
I continue to be at loss, why do you need the contact details, Onkay's is not foolish to ask for the private detail of members, they are more concerned to receive the payment, then only they will look for the contact details.
If you have seen enough of the world then all the more you should be able to understand and not be otherwise.
Well your answers are more of back door nature.
V.
Well if i have to write something i have to sit on PC, are you doing this activity by standing?
How can i crack a deal for the forum, please advice.
V.
How can i crack a deal for the forum, please advice.
V.
Well the new problem is that now you are not knowing what you are saying.
So are you confirming that you have done faults? If yes, then good for you.
I did not understand about carry on. To where?
So are you confirming that you have done faults? If yes, then good for you.
I did not understand about carry on. To where?
I am asking you again, on what basis you imagine things that i do not read.
I do not know which precautions you are talking about, it seems you are still not understanding the work ethics of proforma invoice and other things i have written, this is bad for you.
I think your think level is to a new low, now you are saying that for the individual billing also you will try, so this means that there is scope about no bill also, in such a situation how does the warranty be taken care, and how do we handle our accounts, when we pay by cheque but no Bill?
Well you are going to more heights earlier it was as good as no proforma invoice, and now no bill, so what's next?
Well who should pity who, it is like a man running after ....
It seems now you are cornered so it is becoming worthless for you to answer, so are you giving up?
About the constructive efforts for the forum, you need to do a lot of reading with the right frame of mind and you will realize what i have done being on this forum, you can not even imagine to do 1%, so please do consider to take a walk instead of being destructive things, like the new wave of yours that you would try for the bill, god save you.
I am sure Onkya does not know how destructive you are towards their company.
I have just been replying to what you are writing, so how does that become silly?
V.
I do not know which precautions you are talking about, it seems you are still not understanding the work ethics of proforma invoice and other things i have written, this is bad for you.
I think your think level is to a new low, now you are saying that for the individual billing also you will try, so this means that there is scope about no bill also, in such a situation how does the warranty be taken care, and how do we handle our accounts, when we pay by cheque but no Bill?
Well you are going to more heights earlier it was as good as no proforma invoice, and now no bill, so what's next?
Well who should pity who, it is like a man running after ....
It seems now you are cornered so it is becoming worthless for you to answer, so are you giving up?
About the constructive efforts for the forum, you need to do a lot of reading with the right frame of mind and you will realize what i have done being on this forum, you can not even imagine to do 1%, so please do consider to take a walk instead of being destructive things, like the new wave of yours that you would try for the bill, god save you.
I am sure Onkya does not know how destructive you are towards their company.
I have just been replying to what you are writing, so how does that become silly?
V.
Well you should take up the challenge and do 1% and show for what i have done for the fellow forum members.
I can take certain challenges in what i do at the work level. Any interest?
I think you should take up the challenge to convince Onkay's to sell always bulk and retail deals without a proforma invoice followed without a bill, and then you will see what will happen to you. By the way does the company know what you are writing?
If they do not know then please give me the e-mail address with whom you had communication, and i shall mail the link of this thread to them.
V.
I can take certain challenges in what i do at the work level. Any interest?
I think you should take up the challenge to convince Onkay's to sell always bulk and retail deals without a proforma invoice followed without a bill, and then you will see what will happen to you. By the way does the company know what you are writing?
If they do not know then please give me the e-mail address with whom you had communication, and i shall mail the link of this thread to them.
V.
I am one of the members of the forum who has been following this thread very closely, hoping for its success.
Key take aways for me (and this is not for anyone else - I am just sharing in open forum in a think aloud mode)
- There was a great deal struck and as rightly would have happened, dealers would want to protect their interest and went ahead and did something that was best in their interest - I am a salaried professional, and will not call a dearler/vendor a cheat if he is trying to protect his profit - thats his share of the moolah - he hires people, runs a brick and mortar store and would love to afford goods for himself as others here want Electronic gadgets for themselves. In future, I would refrain to put the price in a thread title to make it glaringly visible to everyone.
- There is no match for Hardwork and Tons of thanks to Nikhil for doing that. It pains me to see a fellow Forum member being subjected to what I personally will refer to as humiliating questions on integrity. Its easier to type in thousands of post but very difficult to negotiate in a real world. Construct before you criticize or even analyse so deep. No one should have right to repeatedly keep on posting - it reflects shallowness on my part - if I will do it.
- Risk Management - I am an ardent fan of this and have seen real world projects fall flat with an overdose of it. You take calculated risks if you want something better - a better price was the case here. The system is available in Pune, Delhi, Bangalore, Mumbai - I will go and buy it at 25 - 27K in a complete risk managed manner. If I want it cheaper, I should be ready to take the risk - A group of us completed a successful group buy of the same system and had shared all required details - billing name, address, contact details and even advance payments to an account (indicated as dealer's account) - infact for us, one of the brave members went ahead and made the advance payment on behalf of all - I believe trust is what got us our systems - and I think I will need some amount of trust, If I am not negotiating or spearheading the deal to make a group buy happen. To end for me Risk Management is not throwing all the negative scenarios of cheque trading and every possible bit in the world sitting on my seat in front of a monitor, but meeting, calling and validating the information being dished to me. In pure sense stepping on the road is also a risk in the part of world I live - someone may come and kidnap me!
In the end again, great efforts done - Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and may Santa get us naughty kids our electronic gadgets at massive discounts.
[P.S. - I care a damn if someone got offended!]
Key take aways for me (and this is not for anyone else - I am just sharing in open forum in a think aloud mode)
- There was a great deal struck and as rightly would have happened, dealers would want to protect their interest and went ahead and did something that was best in their interest - I am a salaried professional, and will not call a dearler/vendor a cheat if he is trying to protect his profit - thats his share of the moolah - he hires people, runs a brick and mortar store and would love to afford goods for himself as others here want Electronic gadgets for themselves. In future, I would refrain to put the price in a thread title to make it glaringly visible to everyone.
- There is no match for Hardwork and Tons of thanks to Nikhil for doing that. It pains me to see a fellow Forum member being subjected to what I personally will refer to as humiliating questions on integrity. Its easier to type in thousands of post but very difficult to negotiate in a real world. Construct before you criticize or even analyse so deep. No one should have right to repeatedly keep on posting - it reflects shallowness on my part - if I will do it.
- Risk Management - I am an ardent fan of this and have seen real world projects fall flat with an overdose of it. You take calculated risks if you want something better - a better price was the case here. The system is available in Pune, Delhi, Bangalore, Mumbai - I will go and buy it at 25 - 27K in a complete risk managed manner. If I want it cheaper, I should be ready to take the risk - A group of us completed a successful group buy of the same system and had shared all required details - billing name, address, contact details and even advance payments to an account (indicated as dealer's account) - infact for us, one of the brave members went ahead and made the advance payment on behalf of all - I believe trust is what got us our systems - and I think I will need some amount of trust, If I am not negotiating or spearheading the deal to make a group buy happen. To end for me Risk Management is not throwing all the negative scenarios of cheque trading and every possible bit in the world sitting on my seat in front of a monitor, but meeting, calling and validating the information being dished to me. In pure sense stepping on the road is also a risk in the part of world I live - someone may come and kidnap me!
In the end again, great efforts done - Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and may Santa get us naughty kids our electronic gadgets at massive discounts.
[P.S. - I care a damn if someone got offended!]
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Kneo,
Well in private message to some member, all these days, including today i have said one thing, that nikhil could be geniune, but the way he has been writing calls for a doubt, and i have also been saying to the fellow member that my utmost interest is to protect the members who are going for this buy.
While whatever you have written, is the hard fact in white collar criminal world.
For me the recent electric shock is when Nikhil is saying that he would have tried for the individual original bill, what kind of skeletons are these coming out of the cupboard?
V.
Well in private message to some member, all these days, including today i have said one thing, that nikhil could be geniune, but the way he has been writing calls for a doubt, and i have also been saying to the fellow member that my utmost interest is to protect the members who are going for this buy.
While whatever you have written, is the hard fact in white collar criminal world.
For me the recent electric shock is when Nikhil is saying that he would have tried for the individual original bill, what kind of skeletons are these coming out of the cupboard?
V.
Samvijay,
Indeed you are right that no one is saying that the deal for sure is fraud, but the kind of treatment which has been given is shocking to it's height, which in turn pushes us to think otherwise.
V.
Indeed you are right that no one is saying that the deal for sure is fraud, but the kind of treatment which has been given is shocking to it's height, which in turn pushes us to think otherwise.
V.
Well you can always keep away from this thread which will give you an opportunity to focus your energy elsewhere. Why lock the thread?
V.
V.
avidyarthy
Well-Known Member
Guys .... guys ..... cool it now.
Enough has been said. No one wants this thread getting blocked. Why not start afresh with another deal of a similar kind, this time, with all the paperwork in 'black & white' ??
Enough has been said. No one wants this thread getting blocked. Why not start afresh with another deal of a similar kind, this time, with all the paperwork in 'black & white' ??
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