sud98
Well-Known Member
Twiga is a good source. Get it wrapped in a material called tissue so you don't have to handle it. Check their website.
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Help needed with Room Acoustics (DIY or Ready to Use)
- Thread starter drkrack
- Start date
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sound_cycle
Well-Known Member
All of these are quite bulky. transport is on volumetric weight. Material for 10 panels was the ~ size of a 165L fridge !
Rockwool is manufactured 100km away and has distributors in the city. Cost a bomb to move from the distributor to my place. And the distributor was not particularly interested in selling "small" quantities.
Do share notes of your research on glass- vs rock- fibers.
ciao
gr
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Most of my panels are from Gik acoustics, the 244 panels. Please read my posts on GIK in the earlier links provided by nature lover. There is an Indian distributor for these.
Cheers,
Sid
sud98
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the Indian distributor is quite difficult to handle, its Santosh from IEDC. I dont know of the prices you got it at but it is quite expensive with IEDC.
The 244 panels for for 4*2 cost around Rs. 8800/- They look really nice and their range is huge, however, the Indian distributor has limited stock,so you will need to check for availability.
Another option is Anutone. Somewhere in the middle of GIK and Twiga. I have used them for ceiling tiles and cost around 110/- per sqft for the subtex ebony. You will need to reach them directly as their distributors are not interested in small quantities.
For Twiga, These are decent and were used by FM Santhosh
Twiga - the widest range of thermal, acoustic, and fire insulation
However, do use gloves and a PM2.5 mask while handling to avoid irritation.
Rockwool is almost out of the consideration due to allergies and other health issues, though there's a lot of controversy about the alleged oncogenic characters. Its woodwool vs glasswool mostly.
Woodwool is being suggested by the many of the local HT designers . Anyone using woodwool boards currently?
This is a quote for the same around 2.5L
Woodwool is being suggested by the many of the local HT designers . Anyone using woodwool boards currently?
This is a quote for the same around 2.5L
sud98
Well-Known Member
Why would you cover the whole room with this. It will make the room dead.Rockwool is almost out of the consideration due to allergies and other health issues, though there's a lot of controversy about the alleged oncogenic characters. Its woodwool vs glasswool mostly.
Woodwool is being suggested by the many of the local HT designers . Anyone using woodwool boards currently?
This is a quote for the same around 2.5L
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Few reasons to cover whole area
1. I don't want the sound disturbing rest of the house (currently 40% volume is disturbing whole house)
2. Aesthetics - patchy coverage would look ugly. Uniformity and a theater like feel will be preferred.
3. Running Audessey sets my front speakers to - 8.0 levels, subwoofer to - 13.0 always, indicating good amounts of damping is required.
Yup, terrible idea, based on faulty premises.
Just covering the front wall and back wall currently would do?
What about the ceiling?
Covering the sidewalls only with the thin wool and fabric to maintain the room Aesthetics is a good option?
Any experience with using multiple quantities of these
https://www.bajaao.com/collections/...ultracoustic-horizon-qkit-9-room-acoustic-kit
sud98
Well-Known Member
For the ceiling, I have gone with this
http://anutone.com/productceiling/subtexebony
But mine is a basement.
I am planning a thick carpet for the floor.
For the bass traps, side walls, front walls and back walls, I am planning to do post measurement of what I need.
I have got a sample configuration from GIK Acoustics (which are the best in business) of
Monsters (maybe 3) with Scatter Plates or 6A Alpha Panels on the back wall behind the couch!
If budget allows for it maybe 2-4 more in the ceiling / sidewall corners horizontally. If the front corners are accessible just fill up all four corners.
2 244s on each sidewall for the early reflection points. same on the ceiling where the speakers are.
It would come from 50k to 75k.
The bajaao option will not work for a home theater, might work for a near field listening (like a small scale recording studio). You can reach out to the actual dealer for the same product (SudeepAudio.com - Buy Ultracoustic Online | Ultracoustic Prices in India | Sudeep Audio India). If he can actually check your room and give an option it will be worth it.
Another option is to run a frequency sweep and check which frequencies have problems and keep correcting them.
http://anutone.com/productceiling/subtexebony
But mine is a basement.
I am planning a thick carpet for the floor.
For the bass traps, side walls, front walls and back walls, I am planning to do post measurement of what I need.
I have got a sample configuration from GIK Acoustics (which are the best in business) of
Monsters (maybe 3) with Scatter Plates or 6A Alpha Panels on the back wall behind the couch!
If budget allows for it maybe 2-4 more in the ceiling / sidewall corners horizontally. If the front corners are accessible just fill up all four corners.
2 244s on each sidewall for the early reflection points. same on the ceiling where the speakers are.
It would come from 50k to 75k.
The bajaao option will not work for a home theater, might work for a near field listening (like a small scale recording studio). You can reach out to the actual dealer for the same product (SudeepAudio.com - Buy Ultracoustic Online | Ultracoustic Prices in India | Sudeep Audio India). If he can actually check your room and give an option it will be worth it.
Another option is to run a frequency sweep and check which frequencies have problems and keep correcting them.
This is from impulsio app
The higher frequency range is unduly accentuated.
Monster and alpha I can't understand, maybe few more links might help, panels at the back wall & front wall behind FS is what I'm considering currently. Thanks
sud98
Well-Known Member
If the app is accurate, your problem should be easier to handle. How heavily furnished is your room at the moment? As regular furniture also absorbs the frequency that shows a spike in the diagram.
These are the branded ones you can check
Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics
Acoustics India, Acoustical Projects India, Acoustical Surfaces, Soundproofing Material, Noise Control Curtains, Acoustical Panels, Soundproof Walls
Panelling | Anutone
I am no expert, but this is what I could research
Buy couple of 4*2 panels or 4 if you want to be sure. Put it in the first point of reflection and measure and then add it to the second line of reflection and again measure. If this solves your issue great, else keep experimenting. Same with the front and back walls. A lot depends upon the size of the room and the space you are giving behind the speakers, so hard to decide by a graph alone.
These are the branded ones you can check
Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics
Acoustics India, Acoustical Projects India, Acoustical Surfaces, Soundproofing Material, Noise Control Curtains, Acoustical Panels, Soundproof Walls
Panelling | Anutone
I am no expert, but this is what I could research
Buy couple of 4*2 panels or 4 if you want to be sure. Put it in the first point of reflection and measure and then add it to the second line of reflection and again measure. If this solves your issue great, else keep experimenting. Same with the front and back walls. A lot depends upon the size of the room and the space you are giving behind the speakers, so hard to decide by a graph alone.
sound_cycle
Well-Known Member
The app maybe accurate. The mic on the phone will not be. I can't find the linky just now but I recollect that they are optimized for sensitivity to speech.
You might like to see this linky https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2014/04/09/sound-apps/ or Evaluation of smartphone sound measurement applications (apps) using external microphonesA follow-up study
"showed that the use of external calibrated microphones greatly enhances the accuracy and precision of smartphone-based noise measurements. Overall, there appeared to be no substantial difference in the type of microphone selected as long as it was appropriately calibrated"
ciao
gr
Space behind Speakers is 1Ft Max,
Yes the room furniture is medium not heavy (A large 6x6 Sofa Cum Bed, large Treadmill, Table chair x1 each)
The measurements are with iphone SE so the caliberation should be adequate from the app. I repeated the measuremnt thrice, I got the same reading. any other apps you suggest ?
Yes , Thanks external Mic is not an option I currently have so iPhone Mic has to be used currently.
The calculation for 9 - 12 Panels is coming upto 50k from the likes of GIK , ultrasonics etc , I'm considering instead of GIK etc , going with full wall Paneling of the front and Back walls (Wood wool panels )leaving the Sidewalls to be covered with Just matching Wallpaper ? is it a good idea ? I will get a diffuser or absorption panels at side reflection points depending upon the results ...
sound_cycle
Well-Known Member
Banjara HillsNot necessarilyWhere are you located in Hyd ?
ciao
gr
You got a pm..
sound_cycle
Well-Known Member
So the son, my Umik and I went across to drkrack's pad.
It is a bit of a ride/ drive from my pad, even on a Sunday evening, so we stopped to snarf burgers donuts and get some coffee at Dunkin' Donuts on the way.
We did not actually make a measurement. We listened to Hotel California flac and some other Hindi stuff (Dhoom BD) and some stuff Dyumna and I were familiar with.
It was immediately clear that the room was the opposite of "bright". something was sucking out all the life the sparkle, the shimmer. No high hats (probably upper mids too) etc existed in the music. The low end was very boomy. This was the case even while listening very near field. It is not a lively room.
We could not quite figure it out. So we also listened to the "this one is for blanton" and the LEDR tracks. The over track arched reasonably well. But the room was sucking all the enjoyment out of the music. Two hypothesis the blame the electronics OR the room did it.
Doc try the rig in another room, it should sound different and will let you know if the highs are actually there, they should as you said all sounded good in your previous apartment. So that exonerates the electronics.
The other thing we figured might be to carefully re arrange with some other configuration - get the windows at the back of the sound stage maybe ?
And get REW (I have to read up on the s/w once again) or DRC (though I ***think*** the room as we heard it yesterday was beyond being magicked)
ciao
gr
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Thanks a lot for visiting us and it was a great pleasure to get help from a like minded people. Sound_cycle was very kind enough to do the needful. A special mention about his son and his very objective listening skills which was a great help. Nearly 5 HT designers visited the place but none was as keen on solving the problem as Sound_cycle was, I am very grateful to you sir.
We had a very good discussion where in many of my myths about digital audio were clarified patiently by him, for which I can't thank him enough. We listened to quite a good number of songs and basic tests which contributed a great deal on quantifying the problem.
The boom of the bass frequencies was clearly evident, which can be controlled to a reasonable level by reducing the Sub volume. Since the bass frequencies are otherwise difficult to control acoustically so I think its better not to target for such a perfection with the limitations of the budget and unchangeable variables I have.
The muddling of the midrange and higher frequency sounds was very problematic to say the least, it was like as if there's a thick curtain is kept between listeners and the drivers ruining all the fun. Music sounded totally lifeless and damped in spite of cranking the volume levels. Part of it is due to dynamic volume of Audessey eq which uses a compression to reduce the difference between high and low frequencies. The pure direct was used to cater to the issue.
The stereo amp also faced the same (albeit lesser than Denon x2200w) with varying results but far from the desirable results. Surprisingly the stereo imaging with tests was near perfect but the actual music listening experience wasn't half as good. We experimented with changing the position of drivers, changing the sources and changing the listening position but nothing seems to be working.
Today a friend of mine is visiting me so, I'll do some more troubleshooting at night. Though I tried to learn the REW software usage but I think it has a steep learning curve so not sure how much I'll be able to get it to work.
Here's what I plan to do ;
Remove all furniture from the room and vacate the wardrobe keep it open and listen.
Go on adding the furniture one by one (I have done it partially previously) and try if I can find the culprit. Cover the front and back of listening areas with thick mats etc - simulating acoustic absorption panels and see if it improves my listening experience.
I'll be updating the thread as soon as possible.
The fact that stereo amp and 5.1 slightly improves the overall SQ indicates that room mode is playing a major issue instead of the electronics as we both concluded yesterday.
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Here is the Update, I Spent 3-4hrs tweaking and experimenting with the friend of mine.
1. Firstly the wardrobe didn't do much to the overall acoustic problems I was facing, keeping it open& empty did not have much effect , in fact echoing was more as opposed to keeping it closed. I am safe here, it would have needed a change which I couldn't have managed without a lot of persuasion.
2. The Sofa cum bed, did have its effect though not bothersome, but removing all the furniture from the room made it very bright and harsh which was my initial problem much before Sound_cycle visited it, in fact much before I decided about going on with acoustic treatment.
Actually I sold my previous Yamaha AVR, because it was getting too harsh & bright at times . even the person who visited to buy the AVR felt it too harsh. so what made the change ?
3. Unfortunately it was the humongous Treadmill I own, the real culprit. The thick rubber track and metal attenuated the high frequency response, which occurred only when it is folded up. Since I listen to music mostly while using a treadmill I couldn't notice it. Getting it out of the room made an immediate difference. since I could not position anywhere else , I don't have any options other than to keep it here. Luckily I noticed that keeping it in the back of the listening area gave the same advantage as keeping it out of the room. in fact the frequencies sounded much better when you sit just in front of the folded treadmill.
4. Pushing the speakers too far back, almost touching to the wall improved the higher frequencies much better, even the bass became more precise with that, which I had changed recently assuming the speakers would need some breathing space. I had not done some critical listening after changing the position or rerun audessey after that. When I stuffed the back of the FS with thick Pillows the Sounds became much clearer, much fuller and more musical.( I have attached the picture to the post indicating the same).
I did some REW measurements, Kindly guide me further on how to go about.
the impulso (reverberation) readings were repeated in the empty room and they were nearly the same as posted previously.
The other files of REW software in Zip file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29568110/REW%20initial.zip
1. Firstly the wardrobe didn't do much to the overall acoustic problems I was facing, keeping it open& empty did not have much effect , in fact echoing was more as opposed to keeping it closed. I am safe here, it would have needed a change which I couldn't have managed without a lot of persuasion.
2. The Sofa cum bed, did have its effect though not bothersome, but removing all the furniture from the room made it very bright and harsh which was my initial problem much before Sound_cycle visited it, in fact much before I decided about going on with acoustic treatment.
Actually I sold my previous Yamaha AVR, because it was getting too harsh & bright at times . even the person who visited to buy the AVR felt it too harsh. so what made the change ?
3. Unfortunately it was the humongous Treadmill I own, the real culprit. The thick rubber track and metal attenuated the high frequency response, which occurred only when it is folded up. Since I listen to music mostly while using a treadmill I couldn't notice it. Getting it out of the room made an immediate difference. since I could not position anywhere else , I don't have any options other than to keep it here. Luckily I noticed that keeping it in the back of the listening area gave the same advantage as keeping it out of the room. in fact the frequencies sounded much better when you sit just in front of the folded treadmill.
4. Pushing the speakers too far back, almost touching to the wall improved the higher frequencies much better, even the bass became more precise with that, which I had changed recently assuming the speakers would need some breathing space. I had not done some critical listening after changing the position or rerun audessey after that. When I stuffed the back of the FS with thick Pillows the Sounds became much clearer, much fuller and more musical.( I have attached the picture to the post indicating the same).
I did some REW measurements, Kindly guide me further on how to go about.
the impulso (reverberation) readings were repeated in the empty room and they were nearly the same as posted previously.
The other files of REW software in Zip file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29568110/REW%20initial.zip
Attachments
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